bdhill1979
Gone West
:yeahthat:
Spending that king of dough on something you don't need it what we are trying to prevent.
good idea to fly with 777 captain?
- Thread starter intern_mike
- Start date
Spending that king of dough on something you don't need it what we are trying to prevent.
charlie1017
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:
Tram
Well-Known Member
So you could
a.) pay $17K and be a button pusher..
b.) pay $16K (or less some where else) and be a better (and more marketable) pilot..
Hmm.. Tough choice...
Just food for thought, we have a family friend who recently (in the last round of hiring) got hired at FedEx.. In his interview class, there was a guy who didn't have his CFI.. He was a civilian guy who worked his way up and actually got the interview at FedEx..
During the interview, they asked him "Why didn't he have his CFI?"
His answer, from what my buddy told me, went along the lines of "It just wasn't for me.. I'd rather be flying pipeline or X, Y, Z, than instructing.."
To which the interviewer replied - "Well, you know all Captains here are teaching FO's to be Captains some day, right? How do you think you can teach an FO to be a captain if you've never taught anyone in the cockpit before?"
Yadda yadda yadda the conversation went on and the guy wound up not getting the job..
Now, this isn't to say you CANNOT get a job at a major without the CFI/II/MEI - as there are LOTS of military guys getting hired all the time with none of this, buuuutttt it does show what it takes as a civvy to get a job with those military guys...
Someone already asked you this, but I didn't see a reply.. Do you have a 4 year degree?
mhcasey
Well-Known Member
Not that I think this will be as useful as instructing, but if you're determined to blow 17k:
$17,000 X 1hr/$180 (seminole rental) = 94.4 hours. Go fly a lot of approaches. 200 or more hours if you'll stoop to the level of flying a single engine airplane. Other options if you've got the cash:
- Tailwheel, Seaplane, Aerobatics, Fly across the country, etc.
If you need jobs:
- Pipeline, banner tow, traffic watch (I know a guy in Austin who got hired to do this with a fresh com. single ticket), make connections and FO on some corporate trips, whatever...search around.
Again, you're at the wrong place. What are they using, a Pilatus for the ASEL add on? How much have they ripped you off for already?
You've got a lot of posts on here...have you bothered to read any others?
Disclaimer: I tried to make this post nice enough for Max.
intern_mike
E-175 f/o
No 4 year degree. I dropped out of international business end of my junior year. It wasn't for me. I do plan on completing my degree in the next 2 years. still trying to decide in what though.
N826AW
Well-Known Member
From someone who is completing their degree and working at the same time, I recommend finishing your degree before getting to an airline. It's such a pain in the butt and will make the first few years at a regional less enjoyable. When everyone is non-reving to visit new places, you'll be stuck writing papers. It sucks big time.
I'm going to get my CFI ratings because I want to work as an instructor or check airman at whatever airline I fly for. I would also like to become a DPE later on down the road.
I agree with this post here. A CSEL add-on is 5-6 hours in a 152 or Cadet...9k is a waste. You don't need a complex aircraft to do a CSEL add-on.
I wouldn't walk...I'd run away from any place that told me it would cost $9k to do a CSEL add-on.
I'll also concur with everyone else (unless I've missed one person that has said otherwise) and say don't do the RJ course.
...If you do decide to do the RJ course, don't forget to buy your "will I be in that cloud-site". The two are about as useful as each other.
-mini
XLR99
Well-Known Member
I don't see people as being haters in this thread, except maybe haters of the BS that FSI has been feeding you. You asked for advice, and multiple people who have been in your shoes responded with real-world advice.
Throwing money at something in a big rush isn't always the best way to get acceptable results, either short or long term. Rather than spending money to be an airplane driver, spend a bit of time to learn how to be an aviator.
Throwing money at something in a big rush isn't always the best way to get acceptable results, either short or long term. Rather than spending money to be an airplane driver, spend a bit of time to learn how to be an aviator.
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
Jumping into the thread a little late here, but I would like to agree with the majority that the RJ course is not necessary. I would also agree that getting your CFI is very important for your growth as a professional pilot. Tram's post brings that home quite well as do others in regards to how much you will learn about flying by teaching it.
A career in aviation is not a sprint. A good pilot will have a good grounding in the basics. You will not get that good grounding by going the route that you propose. You will get it by obtaining a CFI rating and then teaching for a few hundred hours.
When you do get to the airlines you will be able to use the skills you developed as a CFI to move into the training department. That may not be something you want to do right away, but it is something you might want to do as time goes by. Having been a CFI previously will make getting that position much easier.
A lot of pilots who are about to retire contact me in regards to work they can do after the age of 60. It is easy to get a job after age 60 if you have check airman credentials. My brother recently retired from American Airlines where he was a 767 check airman for 5 years. He flew the 777 for his last year. I got him a job at my present company as a contract simulator instructor for $17,000/month.
I know that is a long way down the road for you, but it is food for thought.
Regards,
Typhoonpilot
P.S. I'm a 777 Captain and I'd go with the the single engine Cadet over a Seminole anyday.
P.P.S. In regards to the comment about a 777 Captain being useless in a Cadet, not true, but he might flare at 30 feet
.
A career in aviation is not a sprint. A good pilot will have a good grounding in the basics. You will not get that good grounding by going the route that you propose. You will get it by obtaining a CFI rating and then teaching for a few hundred hours.
When you do get to the airlines you will be able to use the skills you developed as a CFI to move into the training department. That may not be something you want to do right away, but it is something you might want to do as time goes by. Having been a CFI previously will make getting that position much easier.
A lot of pilots who are about to retire contact me in regards to work they can do after the age of 60. It is easy to get a job after age 60 if you have check airman credentials. My brother recently retired from American Airlines where he was a 767 check airman for 5 years. He flew the 777 for his last year. I got him a job at my present company as a contract simulator instructor for $17,000/month.
I know that is a long way down the road for you, but it is food for thought.
Regards,
Typhoonpilot
P.S. I'm a 777 Captain and I'd go with the the single engine Cadet over a Seminole anyday.
P.P.S. In regards to the comment about a 777 Captain being useless in a Cadet, not true, but he might flare at 30 feet
.
B767Driver
New Member
B767Driver
New Member
First of all, at 250 to 300 hours you have no business being in the front end of a Part 121 jet. (I know I'll get flak for that...but I strongly feel that way.)
Second, this course will do very little to make you a more competent pilot. 500 to 1,000 hours of CFI time will accomplish that.
Third, I would take a serious look at whether this career track is for you. If all you care about is dressing up and playing airline pilot...that novelty will wear off in a few years. If you truly love airplanes, flying and aviation...15 years later you will still be excited going to work on Friday night.
I look back on my time as a CFI, charter, freight and commuter pilot as priceless. They weren't glamorous...but I built my house on a brick foundation.
Guys, our profession really needs to look at entrance requirements. I think I'm motivated to call my union rep about this.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Good Post, I agree 110%
It's funny, I was just doing some logbook "maintenance" and had to go through my logbooks. It was so nice looking back at my over 1000 hrs of dual given and seeing the names. All the students names I remember like old friends. Remembering them like they were almost my kids, trying to motivate them, figure out how to explain everything to them, some being quick to understand tough concepts, others needing things broken down with trip out to the maintenance hanger and walks simulating ground ref maneuvers. Also knowing in all those hours that I was the PIC, ultimately responsible for what happens during the flight, knowing the regs, knowing what constitutes a safe airworthy plane and making go-no go decisions. Those decisions are just like the ones I make today as a Captain. Sure as a First Officer you are exposed to the environment, but you never face quite the same level of responsibility (nor are you expected to).
Additionally, even though after I left instructing I hadn't planned to go back to it, I've realized I put that hat on every day in the left seat. Our company (XJT) about a year ago put out some guidance requesting that Captains continue to (mentor/instruct) First Officers. They found that new FOs in many cases despite being off IOE, still needed to be instructed to improve their skills (it makes sense). Additionally, many more senior FOs were going to upgrade class unprepared to make the step up to Captain. We all read the memo, many chose to continue to keep the "relaxed feet up" attitude, but many (myself included) chose to instruct when the opportunity presents itself. Whether it be how to utilize aircraft technology to fly more efficient descents, working on descent planning, or letting the FO go through the MEL process. Additionally coaching the FOs while flying the aircraft. I've noticed that the prevalent attitude has become "as long as the plane gets on the ground, I make the crossing restrictions and I keep on speed and altitude, it's all good." Well, not in my eyes if the flying is sloppy and unefficient. And it's funny, I get the same gut feeling when I see one of my FOs understanding a concept as when it was one of my private students. I can tell when they understand, and when they're just nodding their head in agreement.
In any case, obviously I'm in agreement with the others with regard to the course you plan on taking (and I'm an FSI alum). You seem to be in a rush to get to ASA, why? You probably just started flying within the last 9 months and you already feel the pressure to get to a regional? When you're at ASA are you going to get upset when it may take 5-10 years to get to a larger carrier? May I also add that of the 5 or so friends I have at ASA, all are fairly miserable there, time will tell how this new contract pans out. Good luck to you and your decisions, and if you wonder why everyone is "piling on," it's because frankly your post exemplifies what is wrong in aviation now.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Isn't that what hiring mins are supposed to provide?
How would you propose tightening the requirements, and what exactly would the union have to do with it?
B767Driver
New Member
IMO, it has to start with the accreditation of educational facilities. An accreditation board would be established and would impose standards for training facilities. If you want to be a professional pilot...you would have to be board certified by an accredited member facility.
But you, say, we have that now...the FAA sets standards and licensing requirements.
True. But I think they are outdated and in need of revision, and far below the minimum acceptable "standard" that past decades have seen...largely because of the environment of the industry.
As someone mentioned previously...look at other professions. CPA's, doctors, lawyers, physician's assistants, nurses, engineers, etc. For each of these professions there is an accredited board that ensures the quality and controls the number of entrants into each profession. Even a journeyman welder must meet years of training requirements before receiving certification.
But you, say, we have that now...the FAA sets standards and licensing requirements.
True. But I think they are outdated and in need of revision, and far below the minimum acceptable "standard" that past decades have seen...largely because of the environment of the industry.
As someone mentioned previously...look at other professions. CPA's, doctors, lawyers, physician's assistants, nurses, engineers, etc. For each of these professions there is an accredited board that ensures the quality and controls the number of entrants into each profession. Even a journeyman welder must meet years of training requirements before receiving certification.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
My proposed regional minimums: 28 Years of Age, 2500 TT, 200 Multi, 500 Night, 1000 XC, 1000 Solo, 200 Instrument.
That would fix half of the problems - from the feelings of entitlement, to the whining, and right back.
Yeah - then everybody and their brother would want my job and my pay would get cut!!
sleepy3528
Well-Known Member
a big part of being an airline pilot is being able to communicate. An even bigger part of being a captain is being able to teach, mentor, and offer constructive criticisms. You learn and practice these qualities by working on your cfi's. It makes you a much better and competent pilot. Your school has misled you into believing that you need this program. It is a business and their goal is to make money.
my advice: get your cfi's at an ATP type place where you can get your ratings done quickly. Some people dont think these programs are very beneficial due to the quick timeframe but they are ok (not great). Instruct wherever you can get hired. Try and instruct at a part 141 program as it might look better later in your career. you wont be instructing for long as the minimums for many regionals are EXTREMELY low. YOu will probably get a call right away from the lower end regionals that are desperate for pilots. Go to those lower end regionals interviews for the experience and wait for a quality regional to call. GO to a place like SKywest, RAH, XJT, AWAC, ... go somewhere where they have a strong contract and good work rules. ASA has a 3 yr upgrade and many places have a better contract and faster upgrade. Without a college degree you will be at a regional for awhile so you might want to make it a good one.
Our unions should spend some time explaining to these young kids the benefits of working for a quality airline. Maybe then these places hiring at 250/50 couldnt get any applicants.
my advice: get your cfi's at an ATP type place where you can get your ratings done quickly. Some people dont think these programs are very beneficial due to the quick timeframe but they are ok (not great). Instruct wherever you can get hired. Try and instruct at a part 141 program as it might look better later in your career. you wont be instructing for long as the minimums for many regionals are EXTREMELY low. YOu will probably get a call right away from the lower end regionals that are desperate for pilots. Go to those lower end regionals interviews for the experience and wait for a quality regional to call. GO to a place like SKywest, RAH, XJT, AWAC, ... go somewhere where they have a strong contract and good work rules. ASA has a 3 yr upgrade and many places have a better contract and faster upgrade. Without a college degree you will be at a regional for awhile so you might want to make it a good one.
Our unions should spend some time explaining to these young kids the benefits of working for a quality airline. Maybe then these places hiring at 250/50 couldnt get any applicants.
sleepy3528
Well-Known Member
if you get your cfi's check out Dowling College on Long Island. You are salaried at around 24,000 and have full benefits and free school because your a dowling employee. I worked there for a year while i was in school and it was excellent.
BenWlson
Well-Known Member
In a feeble attempt to steer this thread back to the original question:
A good friend of mine is a 777 FO for American, and I've had the priviledge to fly with him several times. He taught me how to land an airplane without the training-wheel under the nose as well as how to land on water! He is a wealth of information and a great mentor as I am progressing through my certificates/ratings.
The hangar of an American 777 FO:
