Glass simulated failures

spoolinup22 said:
Great points taken. I guess I should really revise the thread to ask what kind of emergencies you give your private and IFR students.

So far it sounds like private is best to cover the entire screen and or dim the lights.

IFR- reversionary mode, best in simulator
Click to expand...

Sorta - Reversionary mode doesnt hurt anything in flight, push the red button all you want. The only thing that you can't simulate completely accuratly with the foam covers is an AHRS failure because the HSI/DG will still be working under the small cutout in the cover, therefore moving with your heading and not point straight up like it would if that were to actually happen (or in the sim with an AHRS failure). The covers simulate a worst case ADC and AHRS failure (kinda...because your 'DG' is still moving behind it) and nothing more. Reversionary mode is really only useful if you actually have a screen crap out on you. Now that I think about it, worst case would actually be ADC, AHRS and a screen failure. So flying an approach from the left seat, while using the right screen in reversionary mode with the cover over (or in the sim) it is about as bad as it can get. You could still lose GPS (both of them?) and a few other random things I suppose.

For private pilots covers are fine, but all they really have to do if you dim a screen is bring it into reversionary on the other screen - so they are really only losing some MFD functions. The inset map in reversionary mode still gives them a nice basic moving map to use as a crutch. Now if we dim both screens, and cover the standby instruments, a private pilot student will be forced to learn some stick and rudder skills if they are the 'airplane driver' type with all of the other information. :)
 
Roger Roger said:
While that is true, the wiring especially as the aircraft age and get modified is going to be the weak point. While I have never seen an AHRS physically fail, I've seen lots of EFIS components go offline or become intermittent due to damaged wiring. Granted, Cessna probably did a lot better job routing and protecting wiring in their new aircraft than most folks do in a retrofit install, but the possibility remains.

On a related note, I have no idea who at Cessna thought it was a good idea to put the two most critical EFIS boxes on the same circuit breaker.
Click to expand...
Because it is a Cessna, not a Boeing.

I seem to remember back in "the day" (circa 2005) that the EIS wiring would chafe and catch fire every so often, so it's not an outside possibility. The folks in Independence issued a SB about it.

One more thing that people training in the G1000 should be aware of is that in a real AHRS out situation, the track vector on the MFD (which many instructors teach as an aid for tracking a course partial panel) may eventually freeze despite the fact that the system is still getting a GPS track. No idea why, but every time a "friend of mine who does not follow the letter of the manufacturer's recommendation about pulling circuit breakers quite as closely as I do" pulled the breaker on his students it would inevitably freeze. IIRC even the sim doesn't replicate this...

My personal feeling is, forget the recommendation and pull the breakers. If you have to replace them after 5000 hours, oh well. They're not that expensive and we do all sorts of other things in training that are not recommended for the best life of aircraft components, so why skimp on training realism in this one particular area?
Click to expand...
Hear hear. Also, I think that guy is a pretty cool guy, and good instructor.

That said, the penny pincher running the very expensive Cessna flight school may disagree with you and/or throw a hissing fit when you find out what you're doing to "his" or "her" airplane. Not like I have experience with that, either.


Sent from Seat 3D
 
spoolinup22 said:
Well I guess I'm spoiled because the ones I'm used to have less than 400 each on the hobbs....maybe someday they'll hit that 5k mark.
Click to expand...
The airplane itself holds up surprisingly well, actually. The one that I've flown is in excellent shape structurally, normal amounts of hangar rash excluded.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Gross fingerprints and slime mostly. The system seems perfectly fine.
Click to expand...
this and maybe a dead pixel here or there

I think I have noticed 2 or three dead pixels in the g1000s I fly combined. Hard to ever notice it unless it's in a page mostly black.
 
Roger Roger said:
While that is true, the wiring especially as the aircraft age and get modified is going to be the weak point. While I have never seen an AHRS physically fail, I've seen lots of EFIS components go offline or become intermittent due to damaged wiring. Granted, Cessna probably did a lot better job routing and protecting wiring in their new aircraft than most folks do in a retrofit install, but the possibility remains.

On a related note, I have no idea who at Cessna thought it was a good idea to put the two most critical EFIS boxes on the same circuit breaker.

One more thing that people training in the G1000 should be aware of is that in a real AHRS out situation, the track vector on the MFD (which many instructors teach as an aid for tracking a course partial panel) may eventually freeze despite the fact that the system is still getting a GPS track. No idea why, but every time a "friend of mine who does not follow the letter of the manufacturer's recommendation about pulling circuit breakers quite as closely as I do" pulled the breaker on his students it would inevitably freeze. IIRC even the sim doesn't replicate this...

My personal feeling is, forget the recommendation and pull the breakers. If you have to replace them after 5000 hours, oh well. They're not that expensive and we do all sorts of other things in training that are not recommended for the best life of aircraft components, so why skimp on training realism in this one particular area?
Click to expand...


With the latest software upgrade from G1000 the bendy track vector will go away immediately when you lose the AHRS and ADC. I usually use the foam cover for my students and turn off the track vector to simulate the scenario as realistically as possible. A funny thing happened once when I failed a PFD and an AHRS/ADC on a student. On the status bar the chosen icons changed to a desired track, current track, and miles off course (can't remember the fourth). Redundancy built in everywhere.
 
spoolinup22 said:
it's not recommended to pull the breakers
Click to expand...

Is that a Garmin or school policy? All my experience has been on the Chelton system an we pull the breakers on the individual components during training. When doing a AHARS failure we just made sure to reset the breaker on the ground and remain stationary while it initializes. A straight out AHARS failure is easy to recognize, but after an alternator failure or over voltage trip they start to do funny things as the voltage drops on the battery.
 
Ajax BU said:
this and maybe a dead pixel here or there

I think I have noticed 2 or three dead pixels in the g1000s I fly combined. Hard to ever notice it unless it's in a page mostly black.
Click to expand...
My school spent 2 grand fixing their gps because there was a huge orange blob where someone jabbed the screen. Whenever I catch people doing it I ask them why the hell they're touching something that isn't a touch screen in the first place.
 
JordanD said:
My school spent 2 grand fixing their gps because there was a huge orange blob where someone jabbed the screen. Whenever I catch people doing it I ask them why the hell they're touching something that isn't a touch screen in the first place.
Click to expand...

haha we have a bunch of those except yellow in our KLN94s. Our G1000 have several fingerprints on them so they ended up buying a special cloth and eye glass spray cleaner. Now our C310's have the GTN750 buut those are the only touch screens we have.
 
spoolinup22 said:
haha we have a bunch of those except yellow in our KLN94s. Our G1000 have several fingerprints on them so they ended up buying a special cloth and eye glass spray cleaner. Now our C310's have the GTN750 buut those are the only touch screens we have.
Click to expand...
The touch screen sounds cool in theory. Until I think about all the boogers and finger gunk that are going to be more readily visible,
 
Capt. Chaos said:
Is that a Garmin or school policy? All my experience has been on the Chelton system an we pull the breakers on the individual components during training. When doing a AHARS failure we just made sure to reset the breaker on the ground and remain stationary while it initializes. A straight out AHARS failure is easy to recognize, but after an alternator failure or over voltage trip they start to do funny things as the voltage drops on the battery.
Click to expand...
It's the airframe people (Cessna), not the avionics people.

I take this to mean I can sit in a TBM and happily pull ADC/AHRS breakers all day long. ;) :D
 
spoolinup22 said:
+turbulence
Click to expand...

This is true, when I had my iFly 700 touch screen, it was surprising how a few bumps actually made the touch screen very difficult to use, even light turbulence. You had to brace a couple fingers on the edge to stabilize but even that didn't help a lot. They actually provided a remote control to use in turbulence... touch screens sound nice, but knobs work.

I dont have much problem now with a tablet on my knee though, I think the physics and geometry of using a touch screen while reaching out the panel is what makes it a problem.
 
rframe said:
This is true, when I had my iFly 700 touch screen, it was surprising how a few bumps actually made the touch screen very difficult to use, even light turbulence. You had to brace a couple fingers on the edge to stabilize but even that didn't help a lot. They actually provided a remote control to use in turbulence... touch screens sound nice, but knobs work.

I dont have much problem now with a tablet on my knee though, I think the physics and geometry of using a touch screen while reaching out the panel is what makes it a problem.
Click to expand...

That remote sounds nice. But yeah I agree I like the knobs better. Tablets seem okay so far, no issues with the IPad yet...I guess the G3000 will be nice with voice controls. Next we just need mind control!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top