GLA or Multi-Engine Piston

kiloalpha said:
Ughhhh... North Platte. I used to run that route until last month. Not much to do there except people watch at Wal-Mart. I know a former TransPac CFI in training at LBF right now. Say hi to her!
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Shes my sim and flight training partner. Good pilot and good person!
 
Aviator_Bakeek said:
I dont understand why pride or anything else negative about Lakes has to be made into such a big deal. The reason its so bad here is because of the 1000 TPIC mentality, people jumped ship once they got 1000 TPIC and management realized that, so thank your friends at the majors now who jumped ship years ago and started this whole problem.

I don't understand how anyone can bash the experience someone gets flying here as an F.O. Flight instructors dont fly in icing shooting hand flown NDB approaches down to the nuts, IT DOESNT HAPPEN. Flight instructors don't get the experience of a very challenging 121 training program. I have experienced more things here in training over the last 6 weeks than the last 6 months instructing, I am happy that theres some change. Who cares that some people fly this airplane single pilot, good for them, this is a 121 airline and a crew is an absolute necessity for the safety and service (or we try to serve atleast) and as a F.O. you will get a lot of experience.

Personally, how can anyone discredit or demean this experience? It really chaps my ass when people here are always starting crap because they think their opinions are of higher value than respect. Unless you work here, shut the hell up. I dont give two craps about your friend who hasn't upgraded at GLA in three years and neither should anyone else cause its all hearsay. JC is suppose to be a helpful and knowledgeable (meaning your personal intimate experience) so that other aviators can make decisions based on whats right for them. Throwing crap around isn't going to change a company, you don't like the way the industry is then I suggest you find a new career cause this may come as a newsflash to you but pilots everywhere in the U.S. get screwed one way or the other.

Best thing about Lakes is the pilots, management does suck, but the pilot group is really awesome.
Anyone who has questions about going to Lakes can feel free to PM me for more info.
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I can't speak for Boris directly, but I read his post as very tongue-in-cheek. If you only care about the destination rather than the journey, then the experience you're getting at GLA is (mostly) optional. I don't know about you, but I simply can't respect any pilot who only cares about the end goal; those pilots do not become aviators in the process. Kudos to you for doing what you're doing and not being in a rush to program an FMC for a living.
 
It was my intention to be tongue-in-cheek (with maybe some teeth, but not many). My great sadness with these threads is the disappointment to follow, and how it inexorably harms the position of anyone who wants to make a living flying an airplane. I don't doubt at all that there are people of good intention at Lakes and every other "sub-standard" job out there. My concern is what happens when the guys who think they should have been there yesterday are offered the chance to get there tomorrow. Eg. "Just this once, break ranks, you've earned this through all the deprivations you've suffered over the years". Inevitably, some will, and we all suffer. With that said, if I've offended guys who fly at Lakes and wouldn't try to "get ahead" at any cost, I apologize. There's nothing comical about flying King Airs in to small airports in the mountains...it's respectable work, and it will almost certainly hone your Flying Judgement in the long run. Just be careful that you also hone your Political Judgement. This career is not a race, and when someone wants to Get There First (or is that Get THEIR'S FIRST?), they often find out that the place they want to Get isn't all that great anymore...precisely because of how badly everyone wants to Get There. Solidarity is the key. If the peons say "no more" and there is genuine Unity, everyone's outlook improves. If you want to charge to the front and Beat The Odds, you may very well find out that the "front" has very little to offer. I've often found that the people most in heat to "get ahead" have very few friends. Coincidence? I don't know. Consider.
 
This thread is a bit tense, so I thought I would make an attempt to lighten the mood. Enjoy.


From a Russian poet . . .

“Translation is like a woman. If it is beautiful, it is not faithful. If it is faithful, it is most certainly not beautiful.”
—- Yevgeny Yevtushenko
 
Boris Badenov said:
It was my intention to be tongue-in-cheek (with maybe some teeth, but not many). My great sadness with these threads is the disappointment to follow, and how it inexorably harms the position of anyone who wants to make a living flying an airplane. I don't doubt at all that there are people of good intention at Lakes and every other "sub-standard" job out there. My concern is what happens when the guys who think they should have been there yesterday are offered the chance to get there tomorrow. Eg. "Just this once, break ranks, you've earned this through all the deprivations you've suffered over the years". Inevitably, some will, and we all suffer. With that said, if I've offended guys who fly at Lakes and wouldn't try to "get ahead" at any cost, I apologize. There's nothing comical about flying King Airs in to small airports in the mountains...it's respectable work, and it will almost certainly hone your Flying Judgement in the long run. Just be careful that you also hone your Political Judgement. This career is not a race, and when someone wants to Get There First (or is that Get THEIR'S FIRST?), they often find out that the place they want to Get isn't all that great anymore...precisely because of how badly everyone wants to Get There. Solidarity is the key. If the peons say "no more" and there is genuine Unity, everyone's outlook improves. If you want to charge to the front and Beat The Odds, you may very well find out that the "front" has very little to offer. I've often found that the people most in heat to "get ahead" have very few friends. Coincidence? I don't know. Consider.
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I just don't understand why folks have to talk about this place when they have never worked here. Sure, many of us came here to get that "magical 1000 TPIC", but many also found themselves really enjoying the type of flying and making great friends in the process. Like I said, majority of the pilots here are awesome. I think I can fairly say without stepping on other Lakes pilots toes that we would want some changes for the better of the pilot group; we have a new contract in the works and it will probably be in the works for some time but we are fighting for what we think is fair.

What it takes for someone to make a living flying airplanes is something that is only for them to determine. That is why I am such a advocate for the facts to be presented so people that are genuinely interested can make a decision based on facts, not fiction or hearsay. I totally agree, this career is not a race; it requires a large amount of patience, endurance, and dedication to the industry. However, this is still America, and sometimes opportunities which are less than favorable can yield better opportunities in the future. Who goes to XYZ airline and says "I want to sit on reserve and not upgrade for X amount of years"? I do not feel its unreasonable to say that most people want to excel and grow in any career; especially in this one. If someone can make it work at GLA (or anywhere else for that matter) and pays their dues and gets the job, whats a matter with that?

Again, I stand by the fact that its all generally circumstantial and depends on each individuals circumstances. If Lakes or anywhere else doesn't work or make sense for you then don't come. But don't go bashing the place just cause it doesn't work for you and you think your a SME after a night of reading the forums. And anyone who works at Lakes that wants to bash it is more than welcome in my opinion, at least they have the personal knowledge and can provide a full spectrum to anyone considering working here.
 
Aviator_Bakeek said:
Again, I stand by the fact that its all generally circumstantial and depends on each individuals circumstances. If Lakes or anywhere else doesn't work or make sense for you then don't come. But don't go bashing the place just cause it doesn't work for you and you think your a SME after a night of reading the forums. And anyone who works at Lakes that wants to bash it is more than welcome in my opinion, at least they have the personal knowledge and can provide a full spectrum to anyone considering working here.
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I don't need to work for a place to know that no pay during training, and then 14k a year is an insult to me as a professional pilot.
 
jhugz said:
I don't need to work for a place to know that no pay during training, and then 14k a year is an insult to me as a professional pilot.
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Is MCI to some midwestern craphole on a 1900 with a crew making very little more of an insult than booking a flight on CAL, ending up on ExpressJet and being flown MCI-IAH on a jet with a crew that is probably making less than $85-$90k between them? Particularly when I used to fly 727's or DC-9's on that route and the crew was making at least twice that number...in 1980. Think about it. GLA isn't holding you down much.
 
Aviator_Bakeek said:
That is why I am such a advocate for the facts to be presented so people that are genuinely interested can make a decision based on facts, not fiction or hearsay.
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Ok, but I still don't understand why you think someone would make up pernicious lies about Lakes. It's a pretty small place, I think, so you tell us. ARE there any guys who have been there for three years without upgrade?
 
Boris Badenov said:
Ok, but I still don't understand why you think someone would make up pernicious lies about Lakes. It's a pretty small place, I think, so you tell us. ARE there any guys who have been there for three years without upgrade?
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eh.... what can you do. Some people take things so personally about the operators they fly for. I wasn't trying to make a dig on GLA. Quite the contrary. Just stating that I have several friends there and they are far from a 6 month upgrade. But if upgrade is what you are looking for then that probably is the quickest place to get it regardless.
 
Well, I certainly did not mean to stir the pot, that seems to be the common "thread" with me though, lol. I definitly appreciate and thank everyone for their advice and point of view. I'm taking the GLA job. I don't know if everything will work out how I want it, but I do know that I have an aggressive plan to get the most that I can out of it, and survive on the pay for a few years for that matter. The pay sucks but my interview experience was good, and I've recieved good feedback from people currently working there. I will definitly be around to post my experience on here and pay it forward when ever I can.
 
Best advice I ever got was no matter how bad the situation "Just make it work for you". Good luck rockman2343 and let us know how it goes.
 
WacoFan said:
Is MCI to some midwestern craphole on a 1900 with a crew making very little more of an insult than booking a flight on CAL, ending up on ExpressJet and being flown MCI-IAH on a jet with a crew that is probably making less than $85-$90k between them? Particularly when I used to fly 727's or DC-9's on that route and the crew was making at least twice that number...in 1980. Think about it. GLA isn't holding you down much.
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I wouldn't point fingers are the pilots (or other airline labor). What were you paying for a ticket then and what are you paying for a ticket now?
 
Good choice. I would've taken the GLA job too. When you are all done with your training, I'll be the guy telling you to fly present heading, radar vector to intercept the Mile High zero-three-five radial LANDR5 arrival.

Good Luck. I've had many friends fly for GLA. Three now fly for Frontier, one for Southwest, another for FedEx, and another for Hawaiian. I think you made the right choice to advance your career.
 
BobDDuck said:
I wouldn't point fingers are the pilots (or other airline labor). What were you paying for a ticket then and what are you paying for a ticket now?
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Wasn't buying the tickets then, and now there is no choice in the matter really - the girl gets a bunch of flights and I pick times, etc without even looking at the price. Point I was making is that I have never had a need to fly GLA to get to the sticks (and if I needed to I'd probably charter). I also don't price shop - when the girl that does my travel stuff points out that a flight I want is way more expensive I will generally take it if it is more convenient - or when Midwest was in business I always paid more to fly them and I will also pay a premium to avoid American at all costs. But GLA flying EAS routes aren't holding down wages. Regionals flying almost mainline sized equipment, on mainline routes, for sub-mainline pay are a bigger nemesis in my view.
 
WacoFan said:
Wasn't buying the tickets then, and now there is no choice in the matter really - the girl gets a bunch of flights and I pick times, etc without even looking at the price. Point I was making is that I have never had a need to fly GLA to get to the sticks (and if I needed to I'd probably charter). I also don't price shop - when the girl that does my travel stuff points out that a flight I want is way more expensive I will generally take it if it is more convenient - or when Midwest was in business I always paid more to fly them and I will also pay a premium to avoid American at all costs. But GLA flying EAS routes aren't holding down wages. Regionals flying almost mainline sized equipment, on mainline routes, for sub-mainline pay are a bigger nemesis in my view.
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Bad taste in your mouth from American eh?
 
oreo 10 said:
Good choice. I would've taken the GLA job too. When you are all done with your training, I'll be the guy telling you to fly present heading, radar vector to intercept the Mile High zero-three-five radial LANDR5 arrival.
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Sweet, remember me then so you can give me priority when I fly into denver, lol.
 
upup89 said:
Bad taste in your mouth from American eh?
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Just a skosh. I used to fly to Miami almost every week. From MCI you basically had two choices - AA going MCI to DFW to MIA or DAL going MCI to ATL to MIA. More choices on AA and usually cheaper. I ALWAYS picked Delta with the exception of twice. Sometimes I took the wife and spawn and we'd work a Thurs, Fri and then a long weekend in So FLA and then I'd get us on Midwest to Ft. Lauderdale because my daughter liked the cookies.
 
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