GIV Runway Excursion on takeoff FXE 8/21

MikeD said:
that was the Lockheed T-33 jet. No nosewheel steering, only differential braking. Those that have, and those that will, who over-caster the nose strut and get stuck in-place, requiring ground crew to straighten it out. :)
Click to expand...

The metroliner nodewheel steering is deferable. You quick that as do are good as look as you keep it moving at a decent pace and keep it straight. The more you fought it, the more difficult the steering got...
 
KLB said:
The metroliner nodewheel steering is deferable. You quick that as do are good as look as you keep it moving at a decent pace and keep it straight. The more you fought it, the more difficult the steering got...
Click to expand...

you fight it, and it will fight you; It sounds like :)
 
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There’s no way to taxi to the runway at FXE without a couple/ several 90 degree turns (depending on which FBO they departed from). If they left from Banyan (busiest FBO on the field, you’d have to do a 180 to get out of the blocks since that FBO parks the large airplanes with tails to the northeast along the ramp/ taxiway bravo between B1 & B2.

I’d find it very hard to believe that they got that far and didn’t notice difficulty steering. So I’d suspect that whatever the failure was, it occurred after the hard turn from echo or lima onto runway 9.
 
Well over 2,000 Citations…..and that’s just one manufacturer…… Why don’t we agree to disagree?

I posted just to state that these planes will taxi pretty docile without it being connected, including multiple turns, and that I understand how this could happen. Not THAT I’m a “perfect pilot” (not that there is such a thing) or that a disconnected link is what happened here.
 
Last edited:
dustoff17 said:
I’ve never seen a plane with catering wheels, castering on the other hand…….:)
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I never discounted your experience, I've rethought my question for examples, Citations and Learjets don't have scissors. In my personal experience trying to taxi a G-IV with differential braking, differential thrust or just the rudder with a kaput steering system was beyond my capabilities although it's theoretically possible. If I was able to offer one up to you to try in real life I would but I can't (unless you have lot's of money).
 
I can tell you what sort of bad things will happen on a G-IV if you raise the gear with the links disconnected. That should be enough reason to ensure they're hooked up before you depart regardless of whether or not you can taxi the darn thing.
 
Dang, a lot of kooks in this thread. I actually fly these things. No, 14 paxs is not abnormal. That’s usually a standard layout. That doesn’t mean it’s 134.5. One family can easily be 14 paxs. Or a few groups of friends. Remember one couch can hold 4 paxs. 1 conference table of 4, and 6 individual seats.

Tons of business jets have removable steering torque links. It’s not just a Gulfstream thing.

It’s practically impossible to taxi the G-IV (or 3, or 5) using differential braking. Trust Me. I have tried. You can’t do it without someone pulling out a cellphone to video how silly it looks when you jet blast all the airplanes behind you and still can’t make the turn.

I find it hard to believe, but not impossible the pin was connected improperly. It requires a button to be pressed to get it in and out, plus has a safety pin, that blocks the button when installed correctly. If it did pop out because it wasn’t properly installed. I don’t see how that would be a factor going that fast.

I’m guessing it probably broke off the airplane with the torque links.

I’m willing to bet it was a nose wheel steering hard over failure which is an active recall on this plane and has been for years.

Props to the crew for getting it stopped after dumping a ton of hydraulic fluid out at 3000 psi during a high speed abort with no nose wheel at all.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
Dang, a lot of kooks in this thread. I actually fly these things. No, 14 paxs is not abnormal. That’s usually a standard layout. That doesn’t mean it’s 134.5. One family can easily be 14 paxs. Or a few groups of friends. Remember one couch can hold 4 paxs. 1 conference table of 4, and 6 individual seats.

Tons of business jets have removable steering torque links. It’s not just a Gulfstream thing.

It’s practically impossible to taxi the G-IV (or 3, or 5) using differential braking. Trust Me. I have tried. You can’t do it without someone pulling out a cellphone to video how silly it looks when you jet blast all the airplanes behind you and still can’t make the turn.

I find it hard to believe, but not impossible the pin was connected improperly. It requires a button to be pressed to get it in and out, plus has a safety pin, that blocks the button when installed correctly. If it did pop out because it wasn’t properly installed. I don’t see how that would be a factor going that fast.

I’m guessing it probably broke off the airplane with the torque links.

I’m willing to bet it was a nose wheel steering hard over failure which is an active recall on this plane and has been for years.

Props to the crew for getting it stopped after dumping a ton of hydraulic fluid out at 3000 psi during a high speed abort with no nose wheel at all.
Click to expand...
I'd agree except in the picture of the nose gear lying on the runway the steering unit appears to be centered. I might be a kook, but I've spent a lot of time with G-IVs over the last few decades and I've seen a bunch of stuff, but the the links departing the nose gear would be brand new to me. I'd like to hear more about the steering hard over failure you mentioned.
 
I'm guessing they won't find the links on the runway. They might be in someones desk or toolbox. If that's the case they should all go to jail. South Florida 135 has a reputation for a valid reason.
 
knot4u said:
I'd agree except in the picture of the nose gear lying on the runway the steering unit appears to be centered. I might be a kook, but I've spent a lot of time with G-IVs over the last few decades and I've seen a bunch of stuff, but the the links departing the nose gear would be brand new to me. I'd like to hear more about the steering hard over failure you mentioned.
Click to expand...

I guess I am saying that if the accident was violent enough to rip the entire nose assembly off the airplane, chances are the torque links are also trashed. The pin could have sheared off?

Yea the steering looks straight enough you’re right.

www.federalregister.gov

Airworthiness Directives; Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation Airplanes

The FAA proposes to adopt a new airworthiness directive (AD) for all Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation (Gulfstream) Model G-IV airplanes. This proposed AD was prompted by reports of un-commanded nose wheel steering turns. This proposed AD would require replacing the nose wheel steering servo valve...
www.federalregister.gov www.federalregister.gov

Uncommanded Nosegear Steering a Factor in GIV Crash
 
T/O w/FSII said:
Dang, a lot of kooks in this thread. I actually fly these things. No, 14 paxs is not abnormal. That’s usually a standard layout. That doesn’t mean it’s 134.5. One family can easily be 14 paxs. Or a few groups of friends. Remember one couch can hold 4 paxs. 1 conference table of 4, and 6 individual seats.

Tons of business jets have removable steering torque links. It’s not just a Gulfstream thing.

It’s practically impossible to taxi the G-IV (or 3, or 5) using differential braking. Trust Me. I have tried. You can’t do it without someone pulling out a cellphone to video how silly it looks when you jet blast all the airplanes behind you and still can’t make the turn.

I find it hard to believe, but not impossible the pin was connected improperly. It requires a button to be pressed to get it in and out, plus has a safety pin, that blocks the button when installed correctly. If it did pop out because it wasn’t properly installed. I don’t see how that would be a factor going that fast.

I’m guessing it probably broke off the airplane with the torque links.

I’m willing to bet it was a nose wheel steering hard over failure which is an active recall on this plane and has been for years.

Props to the crew for getting it stopped after dumping a ton of hydraulic fluid out at 3000 psi during a high speed abort with no nose wheel at all.
Click to expand...
As a former Gulfstream driver, I agree with your analysis. I thought first of a hard over as well.

However, look at the picture in post #2. The arrows are pointing to the "ears" through which the pin is inserted. They are still intact, but where is the pin?

Also, zoom in on that area. It looks like the end of the pin that had the button on the end of the pin, and extra security hook is still attached to the gear.
 
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