GET OFF THE RUNWAY !!!

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If I were responsible for snack trays, I'd want that paycheck too.
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Dropping munitions makes the low paycheck worth it.

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Snack Trays? Thats what the flight attendant is for... And my mortgage company doesn't accept job responsibilites as payment, they perfer cash...
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were responsible for snack trays, I'd want that paycheck too.
smile.gif


Dropping munitions makes the low paycheck worth it.

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Snack Trays? Thats what the flight attendant is for... And my mortgage company doesn't accept job responsibilites as payment, they perfer cash...
grin.gif


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My girlfried makes the money, I have the bragging rights...
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were responsible for snack trays, I'd want that paycheck too.
smile.gif


Dropping munitions makes the low paycheck worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Snack Trays? Thats what the flight attendant is for... And my mortgage company doesn't accept job responsibilites as payment, they perfer cash...
grin.gif


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FAs, more than one person in the cockpit, pax.....would bore me to death.

Ever get to fly a turbojet solo?
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I had this happen in front of me a bunch of years ago... a student AND his CFI landed in front of me and stopped on the runway... And just sat there...

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As a CFI this is one of my biggest pet peeves. I teach my students that the runway is used for takeoffs and landings. If you call ready for takeoff, that means ready. That doesn't mean taxi out, stop, check your HI, turn on your lights, transponder, strobes, and then start your takeoff roll. Also, don't dog it out onto the runway. Same goes for the rollout. We're talking small GA aircraft that can stop fairly quickly and get off the runway in a hurry. I was down at Orlando International two nights ago with a student and ATC was kind enough to get the spacing right for us to depart. The student I was with called ready and waited for 30 SECONDS to even taxi out and then stopped on the runway, the whole time I was excitedly telling him to "GO GO GO." This was a commerical multi student, not a student pilot. Needless to say, by the time I took the controls and went, the tower sent some of their good will and cheer our way.

I don't care if it's a busy runway or not, I teach my students to enter and exit the runway as efficiently and safely as possible.
 
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FAs.....would bore me to death.


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Then you're not flying with the right FAs!
 
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Then you're not flying with the right FAs!

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Trust me. Very, VERY few of us are flying with the right F/As. I've seen more slam clicks at Delta than you would believe.
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Think back to your first solo to a controlled tower airport. I'm sure you were nervous. I'm sure you were like, uh, what do I do now? Oh, man, there are multiple taxiways? What taxiway did he say to take? Huh? Was he talking to me?

Sure, the guy screwed up, but cut him a little slack, huh?
 
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Ever get to fly a turbojet solo?
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Yup, ever time I fly with a new F/O (especially when I was flying Charter, since they would hire very low time F/O's with no turbine experience)... Twice as much work as flying solo, not only do you have to do everything, you gotta make sure they aren't touching things they shouldn't be...
 
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I had this happen in front of me a bunch of years ago... a student AND his CFI landed in front of me and stopped on the runway... And just sat there...

[/ QUOTE ]

As a CFI this is one of my biggest pet peeves. I teach my students that the runway is used for takeoffs and landings. If you call ready for takeoff, that means ready. That doesn't mean taxi out, stop, check your HI, turn on your lights, transponder, strobes, and then start your takeoff roll. Also, don't dog it out onto the runway. Same goes for the rollout. We're talking small GA aircraft that can stop fairly quickly and get off the runway in a hurry. I was down at Orlando International two nights ago with a student and ATC was kind enough to get the spacing right for us to depart. The student I was with called ready and waited for 30 SECONDS to even taxi out and then stopped on the runway, the whole time I was excitedly telling him to "GO GO GO." This was a commerical multi student, not a student pilot. Needless to say, by the time I took the controls and went, the tower sent some of their good will and cheer our way.

I don't care if it's a busy runway or not, I teach my students to enter and exit the runway as efficiently and safely as possible.

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Im all for helping the jets out in the traffic pattern and at airports, believe me! But I wouldnt be telling students to GO GO GO. Dont rush checklist items just to make someone in a jet happy. I would hate to teach a student to rush out and then forget something like a boost pump or something. If your student is taking this long to take the runway, he/she may be unsure of procedures and may need more ground.
 
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Yup, ever time I fly with a new F/O (especially when I was flying Charter, since they would hire very low time F/O's with no turbine experience)... Twice as much work as flying solo, not only do you have to do everything, you gotta make sure they aren't touching things they shouldn't be...


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Yep....There are two kinds of f/o's. Those that cut my workload in half and those that double it. I'd rather fly solo then be paired with the latter.
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Im all for helping the jets out in the traffic pattern and at airports, believe me! But I wouldnt be telling students to GO GO GO. Dont rush checklist items just to make someone in a jet happy. I would hate to teach a student to rush out and then forget something like a boost pump or something. If your student is taking this long to take the runway, he/she may be unsure of procedures and may need more ground.

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I believe EDUC8-or's very sound point was that if you're not ready to go, don't tell the tower you're ready to go, and stay off the runway until you are. Also, if the student isn't ready to handle a takeoff at a busy airport (i.e. still needs more ground), the instructor should be handling the takeoff duties when the airport is busy. I don't really see that it's reasonable for a corp., charter or airline operator to expend $100+ in fuel for a go-around because a student pilot isn't quite ready yet to deal with a busy pattern.

MF
 
Some want to talk about their Pomeranian, others are spam-eating long board surfer girls commuting from Hawaii!
 
When i was CFIing I was always cautious not to teach bad habits, and I think rushing is a bad habit.

I understand what he is saying, I really do. Just as a word to CFIs, you my fly completly different when you are flying solo or freight or whatever, But when you have students on board with you, make sure you do things the way they are supposed to be and in the safest manner. Just because they may not "have the controls" at a particular moment doesnt mean they will not emulate what you do at the point.THEY WILL do what you do and if you rush things they will take checklist lightly and rush.

I know this is way farther then what EDUC was talking about and its really not in response to that, just something from one CFI to another.
 
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But I wouldnt be telling students to GO GO GO. Dont rush checklist items just to make someone in a jet happy. I would hate to teach a student to rush out and then forget something like a boost pump or something. If your student is taking this long to take the runway, he/she may be unsure of procedures and may need more ground.


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This is something this student and I have been working on for quite some time. We spent two lessons in the airplane on the ground going through flows and procedures. I encourage him to go sit in the airplane by himself and practice. We made a "mock up" Seneca cockpit out of a cardboard box for him to practice with at home. I guess we just need to keep plugging away.
 
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Think back to your first solo to a controlled tower airport. I'm sure you were nervous. I'm sure you were like, uh, what do I do now? Oh, man, there are multiple taxiways? What taxiway did he say to take? Huh? Was he talking to me?


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Confession time...

My first solo x-country. Went something like this. First, I got lost and ended up over the old Blythville Air Force base...unannounced! Not good! Getting lost was actually very hard to do considering there was a major highway from my dept airport to my destination and all I had to do was follow it. Duh!:p

Second, I finally landed at my destination with a Learjet hot on my tail and was told to expedite off the runway. I came to a stop on the runway approximately midway between two taxiways. Scared and unsure of what to do, I then proceeded to do a 180 and taxi back to the first taxiway I had passed up. This was a complete and unexpected surprise to the tower controller as well as the Lear pilot. As I watched the Lear go-around and cleared the active, I was then, and not so politely, told to taxi to the base of the tower, park and shutdown that @#%^& aircraft and come upstairs for a "chat" with the guys. Great, at least up there someone could sign off my logbook. Fortunately, the controller had calmed down by the time I got there and seeing I was a young "snot nosed kid" student pilot, he took pity on me. He explained the "rules of the road" at "his" airport and eventually signed my logbook and wished me well on my return trip.

Funny thing is, one day flying into Ellington Field in Houston Tx, I had to go around in a B767-300 because of the same type of problem with a kid on one of his first solo trips around the pattern. The tower asked if we wanted to "talk" to the student and his instructor when we got on the ground? We use to park right next to the FBO where they parked. I had time to kill so I said, "yea, what the heck". The kid was literally shaking, yet very apologetic, when I approached and I had flashbacks of my first solo x-c. I held out my hand to shake his and said something somewhat humorous to try and break the ice. I told him about my first x-c, how vivid that memory still is and that he'll probably always remember what he did and it'll make him a better pilot..basically, not to worry about it. I eventually walked him over to look at the inside of the B767 (pre-9/11) and we had a good conversation.

Bottom line...We have all made mistakes while flying. No harm, no foul. If you haven't made a mistake, you haven't been flying long enough. The trick is to not make any mistakes that'll scratch the airplane or kill you.
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Im all for helping the jets out in the traffic pattern and at airports, believe me! But I wouldnt be telling students to GO GO GO. Dont rush checklist items just to make someone in a jet happy. I would hate to teach a student to rush out and then forget something like a boost pump or something. If your student is taking this long to take the runway, he/she may be unsure of procedures and may need more ground.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe EDUC8-or's very sound point was that if you're not ready to go, don't tell the tower you're ready to go, and stay off the runway until you are. Also, if the student isn't ready to handle a takeoff at a busy airport (i.e. still needs more ground), the instructor should be handling the takeoff duties when the airport is busy. I don't really see that it's reasonable for a corp., charter or airline operator to expend $100+ in fuel for a go-around because a student pilot isn't quite ready yet to deal with a busy pattern.

MF

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I'm just wondering why ATC would sequence a corporate jet so close behind a light plane. Not too smart if you ask me, since it leaves little wiggle room.

It's still not wise to overfly aircraft on a runway, hence the offset. The offset is merely to one side of the runway edge, not into the opposing downind, and is reasonable and prudent of a maneuver, even if the Cessna stopped on the runway for whatever reason.
 
I think in EDUC8's situation, rushing them (to prove the point) then taking the controls (to be safe) was the best thing to do, since the student had already called tower, and THEN proceeded to take his time. There probably wasn't much else that he could do at that point. His point wasn't that its good to rush, it was that its NOT good to call tower and then lollygag along.

Either way, I see what you're saying. Just throwing in my $.02.
 
if you called the tower and told them that you're ready to go, all this stuff should have already been accomplished. when the tower tells you to go, all you should have to do is bump the power, line up, and juice it.
 
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Poor kid. Is this the fault of the instructor or the pilot? I'm assuming he'd only just soloed.

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Whoah are you really that serious?
Who ever was flying the plane should be responsible. Unless the instructor dileberatly told him otherwise.

Wow these are cool
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