Gear up landing effect on career

gevo said:
I would imagine there being some sort of alarm when the plane sets up for a landing with the gear still up..This is old technology!... maybe i've been watching to much tv :rolleyes:..
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Theres generally three gear unsafe indications the pilot would recieve...

*Reducing power below a certain manifold setting

*Flaps extended to 20 degrees or beyond (varies with a/c)

* Below a mininum indicated airspeed

Even if the guy had the emergency gear extension in the off position, he still should have had an audible warning comparable to a stall warning but worse...If not the audible warning, his visual warning would be the gear unsafe blinker, but if he failed to see three green, then theres no way he would have seen that.

If this guys airplane was capable of giving gear unsafe indications then I sure as hell hope there was a malfunction, and this wasn't due to someone pulling circuits because they don't like annoying noises or blinky lights...

I really don't think theres any justification to a gear up landing due to pilot error. Sure, theres added stress and fatigue when flying long hours, hard IMC, and an unfamiliar approach, however, we have all been there before...Too me, a gear up landing is something along the lines of leaving your house, driving to work, and when you get in the office, people are just staring at you, because you forgot to put on pants or underwear, and you just realized it 45 minutes later.

Sucks for the guy, and i'm judging pretty harshly right now, but I do hope he can recover from this major mistake, and continue a career in aviation...It's all on him, and its going to take a lot more than telling an interviewer "I learned from my mistake"...If it were me, i'd be damn sure to be attending as many safety lectures/seminars as I could...I'd also try and write an article for aopa or some other type aviation outlet, detailing what happened, so others could avoid my own mistakes etc...


While i'm on the subject, i've got a major problem with people just using "gump" check without a checklist. Last week, I was flying as a friend as a safety pilot...All he did was his "GUMP" check, and never bothered to take out his checklist...Well, heres the problem...He properly identifyed each item on the gump check; twice!...However, instead of actually putting the gear down, enriching the mixture, or putting the prop forward, all he did was run his hand over each item! Around 700 feet on final I told him to verify three green....Oops...

ohhh, one more thing that pisses me off...Instead of immediately adding power first and initiating a go-around, he calls tower to let them know what he is doing. Screw the tower! If you have to go around, then freaking go around! Call them after you add your damn power and are climbing the airplane! I've seen a lot of people do that....

boy oh boy, I can't wait to finish my CFI hehe :D

sorry for the jihadi hijack by the way
 
MikeOH58 said:
While i'm on the subject, i've got a major problem with people just using "gump" check without a checklist. Last week, I was flying as a friend as a safety pilot...All he did was his "GUMP" check, and never bothered to take out his checklist...Well, heres the problem...He properly identifyed each item on the gump check; twice!...However, instead of actually putting the gear down, enriching the mixture, or putting the prop forward, all he did was run his hand over each item! Around 700 feet on final I told him to verify three green....Oops...
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Sounds like his problem was not GUMPS or checklist usage, but actually performing the required tasks...
 
newty said:
So one of my good friends and co workers gear upped a chieftain today. Trying to console without really knowing what I am talking about. How big an impact will this have on his flying career? Is it over or will it just make things a little tougher? Thanks for the input.
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What company was this and where did it happen if I may ask? Did the NTSB report come out yet?
 
I check the gear religiously on final. Final check, short final, fence, threshold, flare...I'm paranoid about it.
 
Mavmb said:
What company was this and where did it happen if I may ask? Did the NTSB report come out yet?
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The prelim report is out there for those that are looking for it. Doesn't contain much info though.
 
sefro said:
It should have an alarm as specified under part 23.729 (F)
(f) Landing gear warning. For landplanes, the following aural or equally effective landing gear warning devices must be provided:
(1) A device that functions continuously when one or more throttles are closed beyond the power settings normally used for landing approach if the landing gear is not fully extended and locked. A throttle stop may not be used in place of an aural device. If there is a manual shutoff for the warning device prescribed in this paragraph, the warning system must be designed so that when the warning has been suspended after one or more throttles are closed, subsequent retardation of any throttle to, or beyond, the position for normal landing approach will activate the warning device.
(2) A device that functions continuously when the wing flaps are extended beyond the maximum approach flap position, using a normal landing procedure, if the landing gear is not fully extended and locked. There may not be a manual shutoff for this warning device. The flap position sensing unit may be installed at any suitable location. The system for this device may use any part of the system (including the aural warning device) for the device required in paragraph (f)(1) of this section.

Oh well..
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Smartypants!! :crazy: :D. I guess there was a 14 CFR's book laying around, right? :sarcasm:
 
I read on a thread on this site or on airlinepilotcentral.com where someone landed gear up during his training and is now a Southwest captain. Someone else has had to come across that post too, if anyone can remember what the thread was titled. Overcoming an obstacle like that in your training shows a lot of character and determination to be a good pilot. I wouldn't pay attention to anyone who says it would be a road block to a successful career.
 
gevo said:
I would imagine there being some sort of alarm when the plane sets up for a landing with the gear still up..This is old technology!... maybe i've been watching to much tv :rolleyes:..
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Yes, they have alarms but most are not fail safe. My instructor GU'ed my Seneca because he had a bad habit of rushing his students. (That's why I fired him, but my plane was on lease back to the school and he was still working there.) They got interrupted by ATC during the before landing checklist and never went back to it. He never lowered the handle, and never looked at the gear indicator or at the mirror on the engine nacelle. In the PA-34 if you carry enough power, the gear horn will not come on. That's exactly what he did. By the time he reduced the power the sound of the gear horn was muffled by the crashing sound of the airplane. In the end, no one was hurt but the plane was totaled and the FAA invited him to prove he should still be a CFI.
 
hattrick said:
the chieftain is a slightly older plane and the gear warning systems have much to be desired. some models have a warning that goes off past 15 degrees of flaps. this system seems to work less than its broken and is often times just turned off by guys. the other and main warning is linked to the power setting but its set so low that it doesnt even go off till you're in the landing flare and pulling the power off. which basically tells you that you just landed gear up. so basically they are as worthless as the fuel warning system that tells you just as the tank goes dry and the engine quits.
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Well, how often does the FAA inspect planes? Don't they require these systems to be working?
What the heck, why would you have the need to turn off the buzzer that only comes on when YOU screw up and inevitably would save your life...? If I turned off my cars 'low fuel' indicator, I'd be out of fuel 2 times a week stranded on the highway!

now I'm wondering, how some people escape logic so well... (not the people who make mistakes, the people who remove the buzzers and such!)
 
Never assume a gear warning system will work and you'll end up good everytime. In other words never assume it's going to "save" you -- so save yourself :)
 
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