G1000 vs six pack with dual vacuum pumps in IMC

FlyHigh423

Well-Known Member
Hello,

Just looking to get some opinions on what you think has less chance of a failure in flying in low IMC. The G1000 has the AHRS and the standby battery which greatly reduces a total electrical failure. However the six pack has less electronic error issues but no standby battery and risk of complete electrical failure.

I would be comparing a C-172R with six pack vs. C-172S with G1000. I am thinking that the G1000 would be safer but wanted to get some thoughts.

Thanks!
 
It probably goes without saying, but I would rather have what I am comfortable with and know the best. Flying something with G1000's for the first time, and encountering IMC, could result in a very tense and potentially problematic situation.

I learned on steam gauges, and was very comfortable with them in IMC. I have had G1000 training, and have a few minutes in actual with a G1000. With that being said, I would rather have the 6 pack (at this point in my career). With more time in a G1000 environment, I would likely prefer the G1000.

Both have distinct safety features. The first time that I lost a pump and flew no-gyro was in VMC. It took me a few minutes to realize what was happening, since it was the first time. If that had happened in IMC, it could have been more dangerous, for sure. The nice thing about a G1000 isn't that you just have the back-up system, you know when something is incorrect (most of the time). This is probably one of the best features - the instrument flags to indicate a problem. With the steam gauge's, you have to interpret what you are seeing to determine what failed - compare Attitude Indicator with altimeter/airspeed/turn coordinator and see if what they are telling you makes sense. If the Attitude Indicator says you are descending, but you airspeed is decreasing and your altitude is increasing, something is obviously wrong.
 
Dry vacuum pumps are one of the worst things ever introduced to the field of aviation. Every minute is a count down to a very short useful life that terminates with complete self-destruction. The useful life of the typical dry pump is 300-500 hours. That is pathetic. There is no question that a G1000 with backup battery is a far more reliable system.
 
G1000's are for those who wear Spanks.

FWIW my dry vacuum pump has over 1200 hours on it. During that time I've gone through 4 flat panel displays.

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Get the 6 pack machine, install a smaller screened efis with dual ahars, gps, an adc's, keep the analog attitude, airspeed, altimeter and vor. Get a standby electric system an a standby vac system, then all your bases are covered. An also keep a hand held gps.
 
I've flown the very first G1000 equipped Cessna. Still on the original AHRS/ADC/PFD/MFD. Solid enough for me!
 
Statistically speaking, I think the G1000 has it hands down over the six pack. With the common light GA six pack, there is no fail down. With every G1000 I've seen, there is a backup emergency indicator.
 
A six pack combined with a GPS might be safe enough but the G1000 wins hands down here. It is also way easier to fly in IMC with a G1000 once you know how to use it.
 
Anecdotal personal experience, glass for sure. I've got about 1000 hours in glass and 2800 in six packs of various configurations. With the G1000, you have reversion mode if you lose a screen. With Avidine, you have an electric standby attitude indicator, altimeter, and airspeed. With nav information on the MFD.

I've had plenty of vacuum failures in airplanes equipped as such, and even in the Metro, which uses a venturi from the bleeds for vacuum, instruments themselves still fail.

I've only had one failure with glass. It was an ahrs failure. Not THAT big of a deal, the scan required was terrible, but the information was still all there. Numerous numerous partial panel shenanigans in six packs. Not fun

Not to mention when it IS working, glass is near instantaneous SA. While it still needs to be setup correctly and an understanding of the switchery required, it doesn't require hardly any mental energy to maintain SA. At the potential cost of my man card, I'll take glass any day. :) It's easier and safer.
 
I flew many hundreds of hours of single pilot IFR on gyro instruments and while they are impressively reliable for the most part, I'd take the modern option any day of the week. I've seen many a DG wander and horizon sit crooked. The G1000s and Avidyne units have demonstrated their reliability in the field for roughly a decade. I personally haven't heard any stories of electronic doom on these things.

Moreover, the information display and usability of the glass units far surpasses the situational awareness afforded by the traditional six pack. That alone has the solid-state tech winning the debate for me. You need this stuff for SA, and the digital units simply deliver it better than the analog.
 
Anecdotal personal experience, glass for sure. I've got about 1000 hours in glass and 2800 in six packs of various configurations. With the G1000, you have reversion mode if you lose a screen. With Avidine, you have an electric standby attitude indicator, altimeter, and airspeed. With nav information on the MFD.

I've had plenty of vacuum failures in airplanes equipped as such, and even in the Metro, which uses a venturi from the bleeds for vacuum, instruments themselves still fail.

I've only had one failure with glass. It was an ahrs failure. Not THAT big of a deal, the scan required was terrible, but the information was still all there. Numerous numerous partial panel shenanigans in six packs. Not fun

Not to mention when it IS working, glass is near instantaneous SA. While it still needs to be setup correctly and an understanding of the switchery required, it doesn't require hardly any mental energy to maintain SA. At the potential cost of my man card, I'll take glass any day. :) It's easier and safer.

The truth is, our G1000 Caravan has dual AHRS, Dual ADCs, Dual GPSs and standby backup attitude, altitude, airspeed and torque. So, in the remote case that I have a complete and utter electrical failure, I can still keep the wings level and point it towards decent weather which I'll be able to navigate to on my handheld... Not too worried about it.
 
The truth is, our G1000 Caravan has dual AHRS, Dual ADCs, Dual GPSs and standby backup attitude, altitude, airspeed and torque. So, in the remote case that I have a complete and utter electrical failure, I can still keep the wings level and point it towards decent weather which I'll be able to navigate to on my handheld... Not too worried about it.
Yeah, this was an Avidine Warrior. I was pretty low time and was a bit overwhelmed a bit by the scan, but yes, still easier than partial panel on a six pack. Especially if you don't have a means to cover the failed instrument(s).
 
The truth is, our G1000 Caravan has dual AHRS, Dual ADCs, Dual GPSs and standby backup attitude, altitude, airspeed and torque. So, in the remote case that I have a complete and utter electrical failure, I can still keep the wings level and point it towards decent weather which I'll be able to navigate to on my handheld... Not too worried about it.
Ya, I've never been less worried about avionics failure ever. Dual AHRS, dual GPS with standby backups. A complete electrical failure would just require flying to VMC, which would be entirely possible with the venturi powered backups and a compass.

If I was buying the airplane myself, I'd go with whichever one left me with some leftover cash for avgas.
 
So, what you need to do here is the following:
Pilot Side:
1. Garmin 600 Displays
2. Garmin 750 NAV/GPS/COMS (get 2 for redundancy. Also, if your finger slips during turbulence, with 2 you'll just hit the second one.)
3. Dual Generators and dual buses.
4. Backup backup battery.
Middle:
1. Steam gauges with vacuum AI.
2. Backup transponder
3. Garmin 200 MFD
Copilot Side:
1. Aspen Multifunction
2. Backup AI and Altimeter.
3. Separate bus
4. Backup battery
Bottom of wing:
1. Ram Air Turbine as backup to the two generators and backup backup batteries.
Yoke:
Garmin 696


This is not a joke. This is a former client's P210. Taking the whole Boyscout creed just a tad too far, methinks.
 
So, what you need to do here is the following:
Pilot Side:
1. Garmin 600 Displays
2. Garmin 750 NAV/GPS/COMS (get 2 for redundancy. Also, if your finger slips during turbulence, with 2 you'll just hit the second one.)
3. Dual Generators and dual buses.
4. Backup backup battery.
Middle:
1. Steam gauges with vacuum AI.
2. Backup transponder
3. Garmin 200 MFD
Copilot Side:
1. Aspen Multifunction
2. Backup AI and Altimeter.
3. Separate bus
4. Backup battery
Bottom of wing:
1. Ram Air Turbine as backup to the two generators and backup backup batteries.
Yoke:
Garmin 696


This is not a joke. This is a former client's P210. Taking the whole Boyscout creed just a tad too far, methinks.
And he was able to put himself and an hour of fuel in it afterwards.
 
G1000 for sure. Much greater situation awareness is presented. At the same time though, I think the 6 pack breeds better instrument pilots, because 6 pack instrument pilots are forced to put more of the "big picture" into their head while the G1000 has it all there on a 10.5" moving map on one screen, and a 10.5" attitude indicator behind your airspeed, altimeter, and HSI on the other...

The PFDs/MFDs have an expected life of 5,000 hours. In our fleet of 7 G1000 Skyhawks, and 2 G1000 Twin Stars, we have only had one or two screen failures, and they were after the 5,000 hour mark. Not to mention, one screen gives you plenty of information to fly safely as it is.

@fholbert It's interesting that you've had that experience as opposed to what our school has experienced with screen reliability.
 
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