G1000 vs six pack with dual vacuum pumps in IMC

[Cal Goat]

At the same time though, I think the 6 pack breeds better instrument pilots, because 6 pack instrument pilots are forced to put more of the "big picture" into their head while the G1000 has it all there on a 10.5" moving map on one screen, and a 10.5" attitude indicator behind your airspeed, altimeter, and HSI on the other...

I don't think "forcing" a pilot to do more mental work necessarily makes them better at instrument flying. Situational awareness can still be surprisingly degraded in the glass cockpit if you don't use the information correctly or efficiently. But presenting that information in a more accessible way is what makes the glass cockpit the better option. That's why they've been on airplanes that move lots of people for decades now and certain freight operators have stayed analog- when the value of the payload is human life, the preferred option is digital instruments.

 

[rframe]

I think if the discussion is simply about reliability (which is what the OP asked), then any solid state digital system without mechanical gyros is going to win.

I think ease of use and situational awareness is a whole different discussion that is more complicated than it seems on the surface.

There is no doubt that generally speaking a G1000 (or similar) makes for very easy orientation. Yet, people still fly into the sides of mountains with them. So there is more to SA than just an easy to read display.

There is also no doubt that a six pack, with or without GPS navigation, is overall safe and efficient and may well make much more sense financially for some operators and some pilots can fly very precise approaches and have excellent SA with the configuration.

 

[SeanD]

 

[msmspilot]

So, what you need to do here is the following:
Pilot Side:
1. Garmin 600 Displays
2. Garmin 750 NAV/GPS/COMS (get 2 for redundancy. Also, if your finger slips during turbulence, with 2 you'll just hit the second one.)
3. Dual Generators and dual buses.
4. Backup backup battery.
Middle:
1. Steam gauges with vacuum AI.
2. Backup transponder
3. Garmin 200 MFD
Copilot Side:
1. Aspen Multifunction
2. Backup AI and Altimeter.
3. Separate bus
4. Backup battery
Bottom of wing:
1. Ram Air Turbine as backup to the two generators and backup backup batteries.
Yoke:
Garmin 696


This is not a joke. This is a former client's P210. Taking the whole Boyscout creed just a tad too far, methinks.

I'd love to see a picture of that. I'm not sure how that all fits in a 210.

 

[mastermags]

Maybe I missed it, but is this for training purposes or ownership? For training, I'd go six pack all the way!

 

[mastermags]

Well, when you put it that way.... Of course I'd go G1000.

 

[Ajax]

G1000, no hesitation

 

[Autothrust Blue]

The setup that we (Dad/self, two airline pilots paranoid about keeping an airplane right side up, since my uncle got killed on a jumpseat by some folks who couldn't) came up with for our Twin Bonanza:
(1) Aspen primary flight display and ADAHRS
(2) Two vacuum attitude indicators, one in view of the left seat occupant and one associated with the right-hand stack.

It's one hell of a panel, and if I can't keep it upright with three attitude indicators, well, it's not my day.

 

[Roger Roger]

The setup that we (Dad/self, two airline pilots paranoid about keeping an airplane right side up, since my uncle got killed on a jumpseat by some folks who couldn't) came up with for our Twin Bonanza:
(1) Aspen primary flight display and ADAHRS
(2) Two vacuum attitude indicators, one in view of the left seat occupant and one associated with the right-hand stack.

It's one hell of a panel, and if I can't keep it upright with three attitude indicators, well, it's not my day.

I'm a fan of the Aspen. Neat little unit, easy to install in place of a couple instruments, and modular enough to accommodate everything from a basic ADI/HSI combo to full on MFD/PFD setup.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I'm a fan of the Aspen. Neat little unit, easy to install in place of a couple instruments, and modular enough to accommodate everything from a basic ADI/HSI combo to full on MFD/PFD setup.

Yeah we're very fond of ours...and the basic ADI/HSI combination with conventional stacks is a very easy to fly presentation - in some ways easier than a fully digital presentation.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Wow! just struck by a massive need for disambiguation. Now, I've been reading your posts @SeanD, so I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but just to confirm...

Six pack with vacuum?
OR
Six pack sucks?

 

[Deleted member 27505]

And he was able to put himself and an hour of fuel in it afterwards.

Nah, 210s are monsters, especially the Silver Eagle conversions. Max Gross 4000. Max witnessed effortlessly successful takeoff? 7240.

 

[U_of_I_Tweak]

Nah, 210s are monsters, especially the Silver Eagle conversions. Max Gross 4000. Max witnessed effortlessly successful takeoff? 7240.

You've seen a 210 takeoff at nearly twice max-gross weight? What's the story there?

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[Deleted member 21509]

I'd love to see a picture of that. I'm not sure how that all fits in a 210.

I have flown it, its way overkill!

 

[Deleted member 27505]

You've seen a 210 takeoff at nearly twice max-gross weight? What's the story there?

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Simple answer: They carry a freaking load.
More complete answer: this guy was taking the A/C from PA to Australia. Loadout: Fuel, LOTS. Coke, 4 cases. Smokes, 3 cases. Beef jerky, 12 bags.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

I have flown it, its way overkill!

Very close, but Nope. You flew a similar one. It's equipage was slightly less opulent than the one previously described. Also, yours was piston, his was turbine.

 

[U_of_I_Tweak]

Simple answer: They carry a freaking load.
More complete answer: this guy was taking the A/C from PA to Australia. Loadout: Fuel, LOTS. Coke, 4 cases. Smokes, 3 cases. Beef jerky, 12 bags.

Fair enough. I'm not too worried about the ability to get off the ground at that weight...I was thinking more about that much weight and things like turbulence.

I'm assuming it was approved by the FAA for said weight. Having flown a 210 transatlantic, we were approved for flight at 4400 lbs.

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[Deleted member 27505]

I don't think "forcing" a pilot to do more mental work necessarily makes them better at instrument flying. Situational awareness can still be surprisingly degraded in the glass cockpit if you don't use the information correctly or efficiently. But presenting that information in a more accessible way is what makes the glass cockpit the better option. That's why they've been on airplanes that move lots of people for decades now and certain freight operators have stayed analog- when the value of the payload is human life, the preferred option is digital instruments.

Ya know, I totally agree, just like for cars. The problem is .5% of the population use technology as a "tool" (which is the Greek meaning of the word). The other 99.5% use technology as a crutch. Sorta the mental version of the Hoveround®.
Yes, it is true; I have become my 7th grade math teacher who used to go on long harangues about the evils of calculators and kids not knowing how to do math anymore.
Mark Twain once said: "When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years."
I am astonished by how much my old math teacher understood. Kids don't use a calculator to speed up an otherwise understood process. They use it replace the process.
Similarly, 99% of pilots (myself included at times) replace our own situational awareness for that presented by the moving map. I tell my students lots of things, some things with great ferocity. But the one thing that stands before all the rest is, "Maintain SA, which means, among other things, maintain a moving map in your head."
The glass cockpit is great. Right up until it's not. Then you gotta revert to that other SA and those other ways of maintaining it. Ask me about the time when both G1000 screens went black at night, in IMC. That was fun.

 

[chrisreedrules]

I've had a G1000 fail me twice... Never had steam gauges steer me wrong. The G1000 and the AHRS seem particularly susceptible to anything more than moderate turbulence.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Fair enough. I'm not too worried about the ability to get off the ground at that weight...I was thinking more about that much weight and things like turbulence.

I'm assuming it was approved by the FAA for said weight. Having flown a 210 transatlantic, we were approved for flight at 4400 lbs.

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Biggest worry is puking the engine at that weight. The emergency landing will be ... interesting.