Furlough Estimates
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
- Start date
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm just going to ignore your attempts to start an argument over COVID (again).
As far as the reasons for things not getting done on a stimulus, that's not why. There are some pretty significant differences on the content of that bill between the Senate and House. For example, the Senate is insistent that the bill include protections from liability to companies so that they aren't dealing with frivolous lawsuits for the next decade claiming that someone got sick at their business. The House Democrats aren't having it (because apparently being a Democrat means hating business nowadays).
sp238882
Hey-ooooo
You know the biggest difference I’ve noticed between the two bills? The house actually has one. The senate will not bring one up until they come back at the end of July. Not sure we can debate their merits until they actually both exist, but then again I’m just a guy who actually liked Midway. Yea. I said it.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
The problem with writing a liability shield is that there will be businesses that take no workplace precautions, even with a government order to do so, because of some combination of cheap, indifferent, or "muh rights!!111!!oneMAGA1!1one." The meat-packing industry comes immediately to mind, not like they were any good at occupational safety to begin with. I'm open to absolving businesses, but only if the workplace either (1) complies with some minimum, Federally-prescribed set of guidelines (say, from the CDC) or (2) complies with whatever their state and local officials impose. I'm actually not even sure Congress can immunize businesses that way, but that's also another story.
I rather liked the Payroll Support Program, incidentally, and we owe the existence of that program to the progressive bits of Congress that you cannot stand. I even like the PPP loans/grants (same thing, really) and think that both programs should be extended. Pandemic UI, same deal, that's a good program and should be kept. Backing the payroll and propping up UI keeps the money going to where it needs to go (to the people who spend it), versus lining the overlords' pockets. The single best way to mitigate (even suppress) the pandemic is for people to stay the eff home. With the financial system healthy thanks to the intervention of the Fed, more fiscal support and action is indicated.
So, the bottom line, to me, is that absent passing HEROES or something that looks a lot like it, we're awful screwed economically, and it's not just the airline industry.
(And, yes, some of the lack of Senate and Presidential action is the mentality of "it is over," which is about as valid as the previous MAGAt positions of "this is not really a thing" or "it'll be fine." It is not, in fact, fine, or over. I think POTUS desperately wants it to be, though.)
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
It makes little sense to put together a bill that you know the other chamber is going to reject. When the House does it, they're doing it for political pandering points so that MSNBC ejaculates all over them. It's pointless.
P.S. I also liked Midway.
Yeah, that's not how it works. We had a bill pass in Georgia already. It includes exclusions from protections for negligence, blatantly irresponsible behavior, etc. The idea is to make the threshold high enough so that ambulance chasers don't set up shop just for these lawsuits, as they currently do with frivolous ADA lawsuits. That would leave it open for actual legitimate issues to be addressed when an employer/business refuses to take even basic steps.
The PPP and PSP were not championed by the far left. These were truly bipartisan efforts. There were pieces of them that were championed by House Democrats, such as your furlough protection thru October 1st. But the overall programs were not left wing ideas.
Why do you force me to defend the Senate? You know I hate these people. But at least get your facts straight and don't just carry MSNBC's water.
HEROES is a complete non-starter. Not my words, the words of Senate staff. If the House is going to dig their heels in on something that looks substantially like that, then there won't be another stimulus. I suspect they won't, though, because Nancy isn't as partisan as you are. She actually wants to get things done. She postures a little too much for my taste, but at heart, she's a realist.
The President* is an idiot, so yes, that can account for his attitude. But as someone who actually meets somewhat regularly with House and Senate staff from both parties, I can tell you that your perception of their motivations is dead wrong. There is a legit ideological disconnect between the two parties right now, with the Republicans wanting to provide some protections for business and the economy, and the Democrats being split between those indifferent to the interests of business, and those who are actively hostile towards business. There's going to have to be a compromise position reached on this if anything is going to get done. The AOCs and Whiteysteels of the world don't get bills ratified. Sorry.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
So back on topic... anybody hear any details about United's early out deal?
SW's closes Wednesday with results out the following week.
I'd love to take one of the long term leave options, but honestly I can't think of a darned thing to do to keep myself busy while the wife is at work and the kid at school. And she would literally kill me if I'm sitting around surfing message boards and watching Netflix while she does actual work.
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SW's closes Wednesday with results out the following week.
I'd love to take one of the long term leave options, but honestly I can't think of a darned thing to do to keep myself busy while the wife is at work and the kid at school. And she would literally kill me if I'm sitting around surfing message boards and watching Netflix while she does actual work.
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Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
I mean...is that any different from layover life?
roundout
VNAV monitor
/r/relationship_advice
Go back to school? Take care of the kid? Volunteer? Learn to play an instrument? Cut the grass at the county airport? Go sit on the front porch of the FBO at the county airport, drink bad coffee, and listen to all the wannabes tell war stories?
As a guy who's gone 4 months so far this year in this configuration, Having no job but having a 5 figure/month income sounds dreadful. You're right. Don't take the leave.
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BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I heard it was terrible and no one would take it. But like you I have not seen the deets...
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Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
I got busier not flying than I was when I had to do the actual job.
It wasn’t bad, but I did get awful restless, so I get it. I went on layovers to sleep.
Absolutely. All any politician cares about is votes. Once the letter writing campaign that alpa is championing kicks off, and the media gets a hold of it with the big numbers, senators and congressmen will start drafting bills. Especially in states with multiple large crew bases,Texas, IL, CA, CO.
also remember, mgmt wants another bailout as much as we do. Just say United was really going to lay off half of their workforce. Would you rather pay 50% of your payroll yourself, or keep it at 100% and let the taxpayers cover all of it?
upup89
Well-Known Member
Count me in the 2nd stimulus CARES act part 2 camp. (Although, I am as everyone else should be prepared to be out of work soon.) Trump and the Republicans will get absolutely trounced if over 100,000 people are out of work a month before the election. They know that. Everyone hates big government until they need big government to save them. Or at least that’s what I’ve been chuckling to myself seeing my super right wing friends sharing the ALPA petition on FB.
That would be nice, but I really don’t see it at this point. I think everyone applied for more loan money from the government plus whatever they got in the private market. Bailout 1 will take them to October 1st. I think they’ll all just cut payroll either through opt-outs, voluntary, or involuntary furloughs and see what early 2021 brings us in terms of a vaccine or antibody drug.
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BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Airline workers aren’t that important. Be prepared for the worst over the next 2-3 years.
Hope for the best yeah. But those dark storm clouds on the way aren’t filled with unicorns or gold mines...
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The guys over at my shop are salivating over SW’s program. Of course they cherry-picked the hell out of it, like a pilot.
“They’re serving free steak at San Quentin prison! My tax dollars! Why can’t we get free steak in the pilot lounges?! Who’s with me?”
Meanwhile, it was a death row inmates last meal request before execution.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Pilots be like: herr derr, EVERY WEDNESDAY!
I just want to see the offer in writing.
Just talked to a guy with 38 years at the Eskimo who was gonna take the early out at nearly 250K. He was bailing this year anyhow. Some guys have all the luck.
Lots of people are going to have to figure out what works for them and their family. A lot more will have to figure out what to do for the next 2-3 years.
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Hiboglossi
The Most Depressing Person
I'd be very surprised if there's another airline bailout. It will be bad for the economy at large if most of us end up unemployed, and certainly with a Republican Presiden a higher unemployment rate on election day will singe the GOP. But even so we are a small portion of the country as a whole so we don't matter that much. Since the airlines have already received such a massive bailout with the CARES act taxpayers will be none too pleased about bailing the airlines out again, so I doubt another bailout will be politically expedient. Especially since, as much as I wish it weren't so, the airlines are pretty much an obsolete industry in this new pandemic reality.
bimmerphile
MCAS Meat Inhibition Logic
I honestly don't think it'll happen either, unless they pull down so many flights that congress can't get home on the weekends
web265
Well-Known Member
They'd probably just get the military to do it then.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Or fly private. I used to fly those types everywhere...