jrh
Well-Known Member
Sometimes $50,000 weather means the pilot getting paid $50,000 stays on the ground while the $30,000 pilot flies in to it.
Flying for free...Don't do it.
- Thread starter PGT
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Sometimes $50,000 weather means the pilot getting paid $50,000 stays on the ground while the $30,000 pilot flies in to it.
ILSstud
Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity, how does this make them a villain? I could see from a personal perspective there might be an element of jealousy/disdain towards their situation. Particularly if you are living from paycheck to paycheck, but blaming them for terrible pilot pay because of various business and economic drivers in aviation is a bit of a stretch....no?
jrh
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I don't have any idea what caused that specific accident.
But the logic behind paying a better wage is that you're buying a safer pilot--a pilot who has better judgment and more experience to get the job done safely. You're buying an intangible skill that the cheaper pilot probably lacks.
That's what stensonb meant with the "$50,000 weather" comment. He wasn't talking about the severity of the weather as much as the expertise needed to deal with it.
splash
your social justice comic center
When this health care plan goes into full action he'll be going back to get those pay checks I bet.
Another thought is that he knows what the other instructors are making so why not just split his check among the others or use it as some sort of achievement bonus? I believe that is what I would do if I was doing it just for the enjoyment.
I'm waiting for some positive responses to the guys with 325 hours just out of flight training. How would you suggest he get to 500 hours so he could get PAID? ...And he would rather fly for free until 500 then flight instruct any day. At this stage of understanding he believes there is much more to learn and experience before he can see himself teaching someone else how to fly. I never did understand that FAR rule. A 325 hour guy can teach a primary student how to fly but can't take a bag of groceries from point A to B for hire. Now, let's talk about you pay for what you get. I can't pay you as a pilot to take my bags of camping gear to my camp but I can pay you to teach me how to fly!!!
:crazy:
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
When this health care plan goes into full action he'll be going back to get those pay checks I bet.
Another thought is that he knows what the other instructors are making so why not just split his check among the others or use it as some sort of achievement bonus? I believe that is what I would do if I was doing it just for the enjoyment.
I'm waiting for some positive responses to the guys with 325 hours just out of flight training. How would you suggest he get to 500 hours so he could get PAID? ...And he would rather fly for free until 500 then flight instruct any day. At this stage of understanding he believes there is much more to learn and experience before he can see himself teaching someone else how to fly. I never did understand that FAR rule. A 325 hour guy can teach a primary student how to fly but can't take a bag of groceries from point A to B for hire. Now, let's talk about you pay for what you get. I can't pay you as a pilot to take my bags of camping gear to my camp but I can pay you to teach me how to fly!!!
Well, thats life. I dont dis agree with you, but you of all people know theres employers out there that will take people on 135 with VFR only mins. Theres plenty of gigs out there besides instructing, some people just dont wanna look for them.
That aside, do you think someone with 325 hours is more qualified to sit right seat flying pax than instructing in a 172?
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what sort of training they got.
splash
your social justice comic center
Yeah that's life, but I think it would be easier to make some rule changes than to tell commercial pilots not to fly for free. I'm just trying to throw a different angle on things, after all it's not like we are anywhere near sort of pilots these days so I don't know why we are geared up still to keep pooping out commercial pilots. Not saying to make it harder to become a commercial pilot in a nutshell but make it harder to become a CFI than to fly a bag from point A to B and get paid to do so.
Yep, there are few 135 employers that take people on without pay (because they can't legally pay them) that have under 500 hours.
For your question, on a clear sunny day hell yeah I'd rather see the 325 hour guy getting paid to fly pax than getting paid to teach anyone how to fly. Students are pax + a workload. It takes more to overcome that workload rather than just flying point A to B.
WacoFan
Bigly
I think it was the Cessna 411 that was a much maligned airplane. Many people I have heard talk about it say what a "beast" it is and a virtual deathtrap. That of course sparked my interest and I spoke to a friend that wasn't prone to wetting himself and he said it was a great airplane, just had to figure out the single engine stuff that was a little more demanding than other planes. Without remembering (it was a long time ago), I think he said it had something to do with the relatively small tail/single engine/VMC issues.
He convinced me that a 411 would be a nice airplane. You could really get a LOT of value if you steer into airplanes that others hate. A Tomahawk is a much better airplane than a 150, MU2's are awesome, 411's sound neat (and are better looking than many 400 series Cessna's). All are cheaper too because people are afraid of them. Same with a Luscombe - their prices are generally cheap because they are supposedly "squirrely".
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
I take it this friend of yours is pretty low time.
I've seen a lot of lower time pilots handle 400-series Cessnas, and if he's just thinking he's going to hop in without training and fly it safely with low time, he's gonna get a swift kick in the ass. The planes are absolute joys to fly, but it's not a Seminole or other low-powered training twin. It's about 50 knots faster in most flight regimes than a Seminole or a Duchess, and climbs at 2000-2500fpm when light. Not saying it's a widowmaker (it's certainly not), but he's probably going to be very behind for the first few hours. Enough to the point he shouldn't be cut loose as PIC until he's sorted out with someone more experienced for a while. Single-engine ops are no joke, either.
Never flown a Navajo or a Baron, but I followed a Baron after takeoff yesterday, and he pulled away from me pretty strongly even when I was climbing at 140 KIAS. Not a slouch airplane either. I'd be more concerned about him biting off more than he can chew than him flying for free (that sucks too, though).
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Yeah, all those are great airplanes, just have bad reps. I think you're right about the 411. It was an issue of large engines/small rudder and no control authority. I was under the impression its been fixed though.
WacoFan
Bigly
My understanding was that it wasn't so much a "fix" as just adjust how people flew it and were trained. Hmm....off to controller to see if any deals can be had on a 411. Seriously - start in a Luscombe or Tomahawk, move up to a 411, into an MU2. Real capable airplanes that can be purchased for far less than their more expensive/less capable competitors. I love old wives tales and maligned airplanes!
The Cessna 401 was another maligned airplane, if not already mentioned.
N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
What's the difference between the 411 and the 401? They look nearly identical. Bigger engines on the 411?
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
401/402 is newer than the 411. Same engine, but I think it was derated on the 401/402.
texas_pilot
Well-Known Member
It's not just limited to aviation.
"With job openings scarce for young people, the number of unpaid internships has climbed in recent years, leading federal and state regulators to worry that more employers are illegally using such internships for free labor. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/business/03intern.html?pagewanted=2&src=mv
I googled 'unpaid interns' to find this in case the llink doesn't work.
Long story short, these college students are having to work free in all different types of firms cause they need experience to land jobs.
"With job openings scarce for young people, the number of unpaid internships has climbed in recent years, leading federal and state regulators to worry that more employers are illegally using such internships for free labor. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/business/03intern.html?pagewanted=2&src=mv
I googled 'unpaid interns' to find this in case the llink doesn't work.
Long story short, these college students are having to work free in all different types of firms cause they need experience to land jobs.
TXaviator
Well-Known Member
some get killed, some wise up, and the majority continue to bumble through life indefinitely
unfortunately, as long as you dont kill yourself, theres not much distinguishing the good and the adequate...
hell, from first hand experience, even trying to distinguish myself as a proficient and skillful pilot, has got me NOTHING AT ALL as far as increased recognition, increased opportunities, or even any acknowledgement of "hey, maybe this guy can fly pretty well, we should give his resume a look"
only thing that matters in this job is hours hours hours (which, you cant get without a job or money...and cant get a job and money if you dont have hours), and who you know. and i dont mean "networking"...which means little to none... im talking good old boys club and my daddy knows so and so...
really fed up with this "profession" these days
about ready to move to costa rica permanently!
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Maybe you should drive to the store, grab a sixer, and try to keep things in perspective. I'm employed, and love my job, but i would also love to have your job. I've kind of accepted the fact that I sat in this chair when the music stopped, and I might have to deal with it for a while. If im going to be in a piston I might as well be going across the country.
Remember, the grass is always greener on the other side, because the other farmer feeds it plenty of S.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
100% incorrect. It's all about networking. Internal Rec's are everything in this industry. You don't have to be born into anything...don't be a tool, treat everyone you meet in this industry as a potential future employer and good things will happen.