First Airline Interview (Great lakes). Tips?

jgheggie said:
even be 121 FO until he's 23. So his options are to instruct until he's 23??
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You can get a restricted ATP at the age of 21 having that you meet all of the other requirements. Doesn't have to wait till 23 to go 121. Will still have to be 23 to upgrade to the left seat. He can go to GL and bail out to a regional when he turns 21 but I just read somewhere that they will be requiring a 3yr contract. The majority is advising him to get the degree so that he can easily check off that box one day when he applies to a major. The degree either online or not will play a big factor later on in his career and this is the best time for him to focus on it. Seeing how desperate GL is for pilots he may not even have time to take an online course.

To the op, if you're willing to give up your quality of life for the hours and experience at GL do it. If not, find a better instructing job, be willing to move for it and continue working on your online degree. At 19 you have already accomplished a lot. I train European kids your age that are doing the same.
 
jgheggie said:
I'm still trying to figure out how this became a debate about getting a college degree. The OP never said he's skipping college. In fact, he said he's "working on college little by little". So why start lecturing him about getting a degree?
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Because it's going to be a whole lot more difficult to finish a 4-year degree after starting an airline career. I would love to see the percentage of pilots who started flying professionally intending to finish college while working who end up doing so. I know some who did, some who didn't--but your chances are a *lot* better if do it full time.

Especially when there is no evidence of him ever "quitting" college.
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Probably this part:

JFlighttt said:
I am working on the college right now, little by little; oh boy do I hate school b
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Don't all of you airline guys always talk about seniority, and "getting a number in line"? So what's wrong with jump starting his career while continuing college as he stated? IMO...it will allow him to get high seniority at an earlier age. And as most of you have said...he's 19 and cannot upgrade or even be 121 FO until he's 23. So his options are to instruct until he's 23?? Come on...really? Take a 135 gig and build valuable time.
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I have no idea what the expectations of most reputable online degrees are, but if you're able to complete one in 4 years while flying a Lakes schedule....I'd be very suspicious of the value/difficulty of the program. Think of it this way: a normal course load at most universities is 12-15 credits per semester, so you'd be expected to spend 12-15 hrs in class. A reasonable estimate of 2-3 hours outside of class per credit hour gives you *at least* ~35 hours a week if you want to finish in four years. That's not going to work with many airline schedules. At my last regional, where I was a senior FO, I don't think I could have made it work. I think what you're seeing here is people 1) reiterating the necessity of a 4yr degree for long-term airline pilot success and 2) the difficulty in finishing while flying full time.

I guess I don't really have a problem with going to Lakes IF there is an absolutely clear path to getting a 4yr degree. I don't really see them as undercutting anyone--it's not like they're flying 70 seat airplanes on mainline routes. I feel like their competition is operators like Key Lime or Air New Mexico. The flying would be good experience as well. I've got concerns about their training, though, and personally know people who have not completed it.
 
I-Pilot said:
You can get a restricted ATP at the age of 21 having that you meet all of the other requirements. Doesn't have to wait till 23 to go 121. Will still have to be 23 to upgrade to the left seat. He can go to GL and bail out to a regional when he turns 21 but I just read somewhere that they will be requiring a 3yr contract. The majority is advising him to get the degree so that he can easily check off that box one day when he applies to a major. The degree either online or not will play a big factor later on in his career and this is the best time for him to focus on it. Seeing how desperate GL is for pilots he may not even have time to take an online course.

To the op, if you're willing to give up your quality of life for the hours and experience at GL do it. If not, find a better instructing job, be willing to move for it and continue working on your online degree. At 19 you have already accomplished a lot. I train European kids your age that are doing the same.
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You have to meet other reqs for the restricted ATP...such as degree from an aviation institution. And the lakes contract is now 15months.

Also, I absolutely support getting a degree. I never said I didn't. I'm just saying that he can do it online instead of in person. People act like if he doesn't get an in person degree than he will fail at life. As if there is no such thing as online degrees.
 
Whatever you do, finish school, online or not, but major in something other than aviation. Your young enough you'll be able to recover should you go to lakes and they go out of business (not saying you should go there, just that if you choose to you could).
 
jgheggie said:
You have to meet other reqs for the restricted ATP...such as degree from an aviation institution. And the lakes contract is now 15months.
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Those other requirements are only for the reduced hours. 750 for military, 1000 and 1250 for the aviation degrees. If you have 1500 hours you can still get the restricted ATP at 21. You can also get it with just 200 hours of XC time.

The GL contract used to be 15 months but I'm hearing it's going to be 3yrs for the 135 ops. I guess the op will find out at the interview.
 
jgheggie said:
You have to meet other reqs for the restricted ATP...such as degree from an aviation institution. And the lakes contract is now 15months.

Also, I absolutely support getting a degree. I never said I didn't. I'm just saying that he can do it online instead of in person. People act like if he doesn't get an in person degree than he will fail at life. As if there is no such thing as online degrees.
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I believe that the GL contract for 135 will be 3 years and a 17k penalty if you leave early. That is something that I just read five minutes ago on another forum, but had heard about back last Summer when they began the 135 process. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/75898-great-lakes-part-135-plan-20.html (again perhaps someone who is currently there will chime in) You are also ignoring the reality of getting that online degree with their work schedule and lack of QOL which does and will influence your concentration, time and morale. It's simply not as easy as you think working and going the online route depending on where you work and how many hours you work, what that work entails, etc. All sorts of people claim this is what they will do, then reality sets in and it doesn't happen.
 
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zmiller4 said:
Because it's going to be a whole lot more difficult to finish a 4-year degree after starting an airline career. I would love to see the percentage of pilots who started flying professionally intending to finish college while working who end up doing so. I know some who did, some who didn't--but your chances are a *lot* better if do it full time.



Probably this part:





I have no idea what the expectations of most reputable online degrees are, but if you're able to complete one in 4 years while flying a Lakes schedule....I'd be very suspicious of the value/difficulty of the program. Think of it this way: a normal course load at most universities is 12-15 credits per semester, so you'd be expected to spend 12-15 hrs in class. A reasonable estimate of 2-3 hours outside of class per credit hour gives you *at least* ~35 hours a week if you want to finish in four years. That's not going to work with many airline schedules. At my last regional, where I was a senior FO, I don't think I could have made it work. I think what you're seeing here is people 1) reiterating the necessity of a 4yr degree for long-term airline pilot success and 2) the difficulty in finishing while flying full time.

I guess I don't really have a problem with going to Lakes IF there is an absolutely clear path to getting a 4yr degree. I don't really see them as undercutting anyone--it's not like they're flying 70 seat airplanes on mainline routes. I feel like their competition is operators like Key Lime or Air New Mexico. The flying would be good experience as well. I've got concerns about their training, though, and personally know people who have not completed it.
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First of all...pilots are not the only ones that work professionally and go back to school. So the percentages are low for every profession. It has to do with motivation rather than what you do for a living during college.

Secondly...you're college hours and "credit hours" are very "ballpark". I did my associates at a university full time 15 units per semester and I didn't spend nearly 2-3 hours per "credit" hour outside of class for homework and what not. Every person is different of course. But I can say that I am currently taking 15 units ONLINE through the same university and it takes up waaaay less of my time. I can simply open my laptop any time with a free 5 minutes and work on a paper or what not. I have to submit my work at the end of the week. I DO NOT have to log on at any specific times. If I get to a hotel at 10pm and feel like doing home work then I will. And if you think you can't finish a degree in less than 4 yrs online then you are dead wrong! Most universities have summer off. Online degrees usually are year long. You average 15 credits more per year due to going year long. Some even break up into like 8-10 semesters per year. High work load per semester but more credits per year. And as far as being reputable...my experience is with the California state university system.

Personally...when I was a flight attendant with a lot if overnights, school was way easier for me. A "normal" job has distraction at home when not working. However, I found that when I'm out on a trip and layover, I have time all to myself to focus on homework with no family or friends to distract me.

You talk about percentages. Look up the percentage of college students that ACTUALLY graduate. It's very low...across the board. In fact, working professionals who "went back to school" have a higher graduation rate. Some believe this is related to their work experience and wanting the degree to progress at their current job. It's also due to motivation....

If you're motivated, you will finish school online or in person. Doesn't matter which. And if you're not motivated...then you won't. So the OP has the same chance in person as he does online...and he doesn't seem motivated. So who knows...
 
A Life Aloft said:
I believe that the GL contract for 135 will be 3 years and a 17k penalty if you leave early. That is something that I just read five minutes ago on another forum, but had heard about back last Summer when they began the 135 process. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/75898-great-lakes-part-135-plan-20.html (again perhaps someone who is currently there will chime in) You are also ignoring the reality of getting that online degree with their work schedule and lack of QOL which does and will influence your concentration, time and morale. It's simply not as easy as you think working and going the online route depending on where you work and how many hours you work, what that work entails, etc. All sorts of people claim this is what they will do, then reality sets in and it doesn't happen.
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I was offered an interview with lakes. My email says 15 months.

And as I said...it's all motivation. It's not going to be any easier to get a degree in person.
 
@jgheggie, I appreciate your opinions and enthusiasm, but did you read my post here on GL on page 5 of this thread, what life at GL is like, the huge turmoil they are currently experiencing and the other options I suggested and why? I would be interested in your thoughts about everything I had to say on this subject. Also your letter can say whatever was true at the time it was written and sent. Again, I cannot state this often enough: It also is no real sound advice just to tell everyone to go for it, no matter what it is that they are going for. It is not an issue of disagreeing over semantics or opinions, it's a matter of reality, facts and experience.
 
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A Life Aloft said:
@jgheggie, I appreciate your opinions and enthusiasm, but did you read my post here on GL on page 5 of this thread and the other options I suggested and why? I would be interested in your thoughts about everything I had to say on this subject. Also your letter can say whatever was true at the time it was written and sent. Again, I cannot state this often enough: It also is no real sound advice just to tell everyone to go for it, no matter what it is that they are going for. It is not an issue of disagreeing over semantics or opinions, it's a matter of reality and facts.
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I read most of it. It was long...and my attention span is short on Sundays.

I'm not supporting Great Lakes. And I'm not opposed to getting a degree. All I'm saying is that there are options other than the traditional in person degree.

As far email...it was sent to me on Tuesday and specifically mentions 15 month contract for part 135 first officer positions. Can things change?? Of course.
 
It was long, because it was well thought out and there is much to be said/covered and considered. There is a reason that old grey haired farts are trying with great effort to impart some knowledge/wisdom/experience on here. There is also a reason why they stop bothering after a time or don't do it as often.
 
A Life Aloft said:
It was long, because there is much to be said and considered. There is a reason that old grey haired farts are trying with great effort to impart some knowledge on here. There is also a reason why they stop bothering after a time or don't do it as often.
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I read all of it...I was joking. And I agree with most. I do not endorse lakes. I just want the OP to know there are online degree options to help.

Am curious though, you mentioned the benefits of just instructing several times. So, how would you feel about someone with 300hrs and NO cfi looking at lakes?

That's where I'm at. No money for a cfi so I do not have the luxury of just instructing to ATP mins. I'm exploring all options.
 
A Life Aloft said:
It was long, because it was well thought out and there is much to be said and considered. There is a reason that old grey haired farts are trying with great effort to impart some knowledge on here. There is also a reason why they stop bothering after a time or don't do it as often.
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Welcome to my world! :)

Now I'm of the school of thought of "Here's my perspective/Do what you want because you're going to anyway/Don't expect much sympathy when the "Dear Dough" letter hits my inbox when you didn't heed the advice"
 
jgheggie said:
You talk about percentages. Look up the percentage of college students that ACTUALLY graduate. It's very low...across the board. In fact, working professionals who "went back to school" have a higher graduation rate. Some believe this is related to their work experience and wanting the degree to progress at their current job. It's also due to motivation....
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That may be (I really have no idea, and you didn't provide a source for your stats), but there is absolutely no easier way to finish a degree as a 19 year old than to get your butt in a brick and mortar institution and crank it out. This is particularly true if he/she does it in something worthwhile, like some type of engineering or nursing degree.
 
@JFlighttt have you looked into other options too if your really trying to change up the scenery of flight instruction? I know of a few survey companies looking to hire pretty soon for the summer seasons and I like just about everything with my job (besides office politics, but things are getting much better). I could give you plenty more insight into that if your interested.
 
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