First Airline Interview (Great lakes). Tips?

Glad it worked for Fox, but the facts remain that it won't work for MOST people. The world EXPECTS a degree, and many places you'd like to work won't look seriously at you without one. Each one must decide for him/herself. THEN live with the consequences, probably for a lifetime.

I dropped out after two years of a classical liberal-arts education (personal & family reasons), KNOWING I would have to finish it, somehow, sometime. Marriage and military intervened before I returned to full-time education, while working part-time 40-50 hours a week in my field, and collecting GI bill pittance. Got a degree in a parallel field after being far more focused in study habits. Harder but more rewarding.

Memories, experiences and friendships remain. Skills in chasing women haven't been used much for a while. Skills in drinking beer can be obtained anytime, anywhere. No dearth of sports bars near me.
 
Acrofox said:
Some of my best memories and times were the years I wasn't in college. Sure, it was tough at times... in the downturn after y2k I had to work some jobs that weren't well aligned with my skillset, and cut back a bit on discretionary expenses... and I watched people all around me in tech go back to school for business/management degrees, sometimes second degrees, sometimes firsts. I'm glad I stayed in the industry instead of allowing society to force me into an education I would have probably come to have hated. Some of my closest friendships, that continue today, were made in the years I didn't go to college, and many of them have been great networking opportunities for me. I also had the time, resources and ability to do things I wouldn't have been able to afford had I shelled out tens of thousands of dollars on an education—I built systems, wrote awesome programs, got to work without a safety net on live production infrastructures supporting tens of millions of users real-time (maybe even you!), in environments where downtime was measured in the millions of dollars of revenue lost per hour. I got to race sailboats, write/play music, learn to dive, get my amateur radio license, fly aerobatics, buy a couple shiny red motorcycles to replace the $300-$400 beater bikes I'd had before, buy a shiny red sports car and a blue 1968 Mustang Fastback... I got to learn to play hockey, ski, explore the hills, forests and coastline of California, and to be passionately, madly in absolute love with someone whose merest touch could bring me to tears; I was able to go to science fiction and furry conventions, play with electronics, ride a sportbike across the country in the middle of winter, play on the beach and read all manners of books, watch plays and film and opera. I was able to stay on the back end of the forefront of technology, one of small number of people who contributed to Linux and the free software community in its formative years, lived to be an internet engineer, and then watched as the system I had a hand in was taken on by other people, like passing a torch.

I was able to referee games at all levels, and participate in some of the best and worst moments of hockey players who are now pro, or who might have been. I was able to learn to roast and make amazing coffee, the likes of which most people have never had and likely will never experience. I have brought the religion of proper, third-wave, specialty coffee to many and opened their eyes to a whole different world. I have written books and stories. I have danced, have become inebriated, and done things that few mortals are able to do, all during the time I never went to college.

What does this have to do with college...?

Nothing.

-Fox
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So what's the game plan if you lose your medical?
 
This is from the 80's. And I only mention it cause the thread is going that way. Me and a guy I went to high school with started flying at the same time and it's interesting to compare careers. I went to Riddle and he went to Alaska to be a bush pilot. I got a degree and he didn't. I was CFI, scenic tours, 135 light twin freight, 121 supplemental Convair freight, UPS. He was 172, floatplane, Navajo, Pen Air, Horizon, Pen Air again up to Metro checkairman, Alaska. Now, I'm a Capt at UPS and he's a Capt at Alaska Air. Pretty much equal but I'd say he worked much harder to get there than I did and I'd also say he was pretty lucky cause he was in Alaska and Alaska Air was one that gave a lot of respect to his experience level over a degree. In other words, I don't think any other career type airline would have looked at him without the degree but Alaska did because of their unique flying and pilot group.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how this became a debate about getting a college degree. The OP never said he's skipping college. In fact, he said he's "working on college little by little". So why start lecturing him about getting a degree?

Don't all of you airline guys always talk about seniority, and "getting a number in line"? So what's wrong with jump starting his career while continuing college as he stated? IMO...it will allow him to get high seniority at an earlier age. And as most of you have said...he's 19 and cannot upgrade or even be 121 FO until he's 23. So his options are to instruct until he's 23?? Come on...really? Take a 135 gig and build valuable time.

23-19=4

That's 4yrs to complete a degree BEFORE it is really needed. And if he's "working" on it right now then maybe he's already close to the associates?? And if he goes to riddle online or UND online then he will receive credit and can easily finish a bachelors in less than 3yrs.

As someone else pointed out...I know several military service men/women that have finished school online while deployed or working. In fact, I know a pilot who did it with riddle while deployed. Then as soon as he got out he started flying.

I truly feel like there are 10,000 ways to get to the end result of flying for a major or making a good living flying. Ask anyone on here and experiences will vary widely. So my point is, if you know the interview gauge for GLA then help the OP out. If not, then do not give him "your" route of how you did things. Telling him the bad things about lakes is good advice. But demeaning him for supposedly "leaving" college is completely wrong. Especially when there is no evidence of him ever "quitting" college.
 
Oh, we're no longer sharing tidbits of wisdom learned from a collective century of experience (mistakes) and hindsight (regret)?

I must've missed that memo.
 
bLizZuE said:
Oh, we're no longer sharing tidbits of wisdom learned from a collective century of experience (mistakes) and hindsight (regret)?

I must've missed that memo.
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I think the memo you missed is the one that clearly says the OP is WORKING on college!

I must've missed the memo that says he's skipping college for an airline job.
 
jgheggie said:
I think the memo you missed is the one that clearly says the OP is WORKING on college!

I must've missed the memo that says he's skipping college for an airline job.
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I think you missed the whole part where the folks who have "been there done that" were chiming in about the priority of finishing the degree over building turbine time. Working full time at this particular operator and going to school online may not work out too well. You're right though in that the OP did say he was working on school little by little but he also said that he hates it.

Some concern was expressed about being able to fly for GL and go to school at the same time, and even with those good intentions it may not be possible. I've had friends who worked for GL and its basically indentured servant hood from the stories I've heard. They will work you into the ground and then some, all at McDonalds wages.

To the OP...good luck!
 
Romulus said:
I'd reiterate the college thing. I know several guys that have amazing resumes but passed on college so now they can't make that next step to jobs they really want. To make matters worse now life has gotten more compicated (wife, house, kids, dog, full time job, etc) and the ability to go back to school and get a degree is almost non-existant. Sounds like you have a lot going for you, no need to rush. Lakes or someone just like them will still be around in a few years.
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Without out any doubt whatsoever, the most bitter, angry, unhappy guys I've flown with got into professional aviation super early and have never done anything else. They get burned out before 30, and are convinced everybody else (outside aviation) is living the good life.

I would highly, highly recommend going to college and studying something that has NOTHING to do with aviation. You will likely end up a much happier person down the road.
 
JFlighttt said:
Because at 19, I'd be getting turbine time...

I'd rather have 1000 hours of turbine time than 1000 hours of C172 time by the time I'm 21.
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I am sorry I lol'ed.

Go to Lakes and don't listen to what anyone says in here.

But I don't want to hear any complaining and when you are old and crusty and all those 1000 C172 pilots are ahead of you in the game since a majority of the time you will have is SIC, guess they will be saying the exact opposite.

Tell you what I am 22 and I'll bet you that all those those 1000 C172 TT will be your captain at a major/your next regional when you quit, before you ever get your fourth stripe.

Piss poor attitude, and that is one of the reasons that airline pay will never go up, because there are always suckers willing to take a make belief short cut.

Another quick note if you think you will have time to get crapped on at Great Lakes and go to school, well give me some of the Kool Aid, because it must be delicious...

Have fun man just, don't say we didn't tell you so.

BTW under looking good @Mike Wise lol ;)

Btw be careful this might be you in ten years when you are 29

 
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gne in prog said:
What does this have to do with being a pilot...?

Nothing.
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What does a degree have to do with being a pilot?

About as much.

Being employed by a major? Perhaps a different story. I was simply responding to what was said-I don't think anyone was implying that the op wasn't going to get a degree, nor was I advising it, given his airline goals.

Sorry I don't subscribe to the party line here, but I absolutely hate the reasoning at play. Think meta, don't just do what you're told because you're told to do it.

And don't single me out at the end of a discussion that has nothing to do with "being a pilot" by saying that what I'm saying has nothing to do with being a pilot simply because you disagree with the point I'm making.

-Fox
 
FloridaLarry said:
Glad it worked for Fox, but the facts remain that it won't work for MOST people. The world EXPECTS a degree, and many places you'd like to work won't look seriously at you without one. Each one must decide for him/herself. THEN live with the consequences, probably for a lifetime.
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It would work for people if everyone stopped going to college simply due to inertia and because 'The world EXPECTS a degree'.

I'm not saying don't go to college, by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying 'have better reasons for what you do'. Blind adherence to convention for the sake of convention is the origin of most of society's ills.
 
purpel said:
Piss poor attitude, and that is one of the reasons that airline pay will never go up, because there are always suckers willing to take a make belief short cut.
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Trying to take shortcuts and taking crappy pay/work rules is definitely not limited to the airlines. I've worked 135 charter, and looking back on what I put up with is laughable compared to the regional I currently work at.

I just had an interview with a big charter operator out west, and their pay and work rules (for a PIC) are less than what I currently experience at a regional as a FO.

Over at the PPW forum, a corporate guy recently posted a celebratory thread about his new (corporate) job, only to find out the owner was recently approached by a pilot willing to do his job for half the pay. This happened to a friend of mine a couple of years ago, and he lost his job to the undercutter.

When I was flying corporate, we received several resumes from guys (non-airline BTW) that offered to pay for their training.

The point is, guys looking for shortcuts are all over this industry. Sometimes it works for them, and sometimes it blows up in their face.

My only recommendation is do to whatever keeps you safe, legal, pays the bills, and keeps the fun going (at least to some extent!).
 
Aye yai yai. No dog in this fight except for one: I think it's important when giving advice , especially to really young and a newbie or want to be pilots, that the advice actually pertain to their situation, accurate advice given about the big picture, and truthful specific advice about what they may be contemplating doing. Sometimes we have personal experience to give and sometimes the experience of others that we know to share.

It doesn't help them to go off on tangents that really don't pertain to what is being asked, nor to have all the squalling and snarking comments. It also is no real sound advice just to tell everyone to go for it, no matter what it is that they are going for.

It does not matter if someone thinks that having a degree is not worth it or that there are other routes to follow, the OPs goal is to get to an airline at some point. And in reality, a college degree is going to be required at some point in time in most types of professional flying whether you agree with that or not. That isn't the issue. It will be required. So bringing up esoteric debates about whether having to have a college degree is worthwhile or not worthwhile and why and all the outside activities not related to an education that one participated in while getting a degree or did while not getting one, is just a moot and futile debate. We've already had these discussions on here and one I believe not long ago had it's own thread.

Now, from what little I know of GL, I would have some reservations. Some serious reservations. My concerns would be that they are losing their EAS routes. (most recently two to SkyWest.) One thing that did strike me is the OP saying that he hates school. I don't think even for someone who loves school, they are going to be able to get a degree even on line with the hours that the pilots at GL are working and under the current work conditions. There are reasons that their attrition rates for pilots is so huge. Didn't their CP just bail recently? Their attempt at the 135 cert is a last ditch attempt IMO, to save themselves and this might not even happen. I think they may have just been approved for some ops for that due to reconfigs of their seats on some of their equipment. (perhaps if anyone is currently working there-they could comment to this) They are in serious financial hurt. Even with all of this, I have heard very reliably that the washout rates (in training) there are also very high. If you fail the training for whatever reason, that is not going to look well on your resume. I would also not necessarily expect any quick upgrades either, due to the fact, that they really in the hurt locker for FOs right now. They have plenty of junior captains sitting in the right seat currently. Personally, I am also not big on training contracts at all.

How the hell is anyone really going to live on 16 clams an hour? I don't care what kind of hovel you live in nor how many roommates you have. What kind of life is that? There is paying dues and then there is suffering and working for slave wages with no QOL. A person working at Burger King at 40 hours a week will make more money. The training as I understand it, is lengthy (over eight weeks) and UNPAID. All I can say is WTF?

The OP is young, very young. We all once were. I see how eager he is too. But, I would hate to see that drive and that eagerness backfire on him, and lead him to making a decision that will hurt him in the end, financially, emotionally and be a set-back or a real detriment. There is no reason at his age to not to instruct, look into other part-time low hours types of flying and to take finishing his degree more seriously (attitude adjustment is everything and getting a degree in something that you not only enjoy but will be useful down the road) and make it a priority rather just in building certain types of flight hours. The OP has already said he has no ties and is willing to move. Then perhaps looking at larger/better flight schools with bigger equipment, growth potential and opportunities for additional types of side flying might be an option to look at as well. But, there are several reasons/serious issues to be considered on whether GL is actually a good choice. At some point, youthful enthusiasm/exuberance and lack of experience has to be tempered with common sense and reality. Just my two cents worth. People are going to do what they are going to do.
 
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As Aloft said, Great Lakes in throwing in a last ditch effort to stay in business by going 135. If this fails and they go out of business. ..where does this leave you?
 
Acrofox said:
What does a degree have to do with being a pilot?

About as much.

Being employed by a major? Perhaps a different story. I was simply responding to what was said-I don't think anyone was implying that the op wasn't going to get a degree, nor was I advising it, given his airline goals.

Sorry I don't subscribe to the party line here, but I absolutely hate the reasoning at play. Think meta, don't just do what you're told because you're told to do it.

And don't single me out at the end of a discussion that has nothing to do with "being a pilot" by saying that what I'm saying has nothing to do with being a pilot simply because you disagree with the point I'm making.

-Fox
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I never wrote that I disagree with your point. I think your point is meaningless.
 
Cazadores said:
A twenty year old, looking for a flying job, working on a degree, with a commercial license and maybe some 1900 time?
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Unless it's PIC, it's about a useless as boobs on a bull in today's industry. At least instructing until 1500 would give you a chance at a decent regional one day.
 
This is off topic but just curious...

...if lakes gets 135 and the OP is a 135 FO, then couldn't he log pic during legs that he is Pilot Flying??

I'm asking because I do not know. Not to prove any points are cause more arguing haha.
 
jgheggie said:
This is off topic but just curious...

...if lakes gets 135 and the OP is a 135 FO, then couldn't he log pic during legs that he is Pilot Flying??

I'm asking because I do not know. Not to prove any points are cause more arguing haha.
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Nope
 
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