This will not stand, man.Now say it like The Dude.
Can you not file on fltplan.com using non GPS routes? Jet routes can be flown using VOR service volumes. Or just file relatively close fixes? You can always file, and in the remarks put non GPS equipped in there...
No plotter. We no longer have paper charts. But that shouldn't matter anyway. We can file a radial outbound and DME, sure, but our Flight Followers for some reason can't do it easily when filing a flight plan in the computer system.You get out your plotter on the high en-route chart and figure it out.
I often share my routings on common routes with them to get the ball rolling quicker. They do appreciate it.I'd give the CP a call and explain the difficulties of the situation.
You could also find the routings that you like and suggest them to dispatch before your flights.
Shame on the other pilots that fly that bird and dont bring up the same issues. They truly hung you to dry on this one!
Well of course, as I said above that's what we do. But if there's no airway between the VORs they must fall within VOR service volumes. 130nm is the limit when at cruise at FL350 if you're going direct from the first VOR to the next.Exactly!
No need to file a radial. Just file direct to the next VOR and plot your course.
You are correct. I wasn't questioning this.You actually don't need to be in the service volumes when you're on an airway too. Just to be clear.
Meh. A Garmin x96 is more reliable and accurate than the pos vor equipment in a 40 year old jet.Thanks for sticking to your guns and making sure you are on a legal route structure. It kind of gives me chills that there are RVSM aircraft flying around on a heading following a handheld GPS. Not saying you are doing that but I imagine you are not the only pilot who flies that /A aircraft.
Meh. A Garmin x96 is more reliable and accurate than the pos vor equipment in a 40 year old jet.
Well of course, as I said above that's what we do. But if there's no airway between the VORs they must fall within VOR service volumes. 130nm is the limit when at cruise at FL350 if you're going direct from the first VOR to the next.
Are you saying you will only fly between VOR's that are only 130nm apart? Service volume from VOR A is 130nm + Service Volume from VOR B is 130nm = 260nm.
2. Operation off established routes from 18,000 feet MSL to FL 450—use NAVAIDs not more than 260 NM apart. These aids are depicted on en route high altitude charts.
Dude, you do not need a fix between two High VORs. Even if they are 260nm apart, you just plot a line out (and figure the out bound radial) and plot the line into the next (calculating the radial inbound ... probably not exactly 180 degrees off due to declination differences in the VORs) and fly the radials. Nothing says that you have to file those radials, just the two VORs. Additionally, take advantage of Jet Routes, which often will extend the leg well beyond the service volume will allow. File it even if it is slightly less than a direct route, you can always ask for vectors to XYZAB intersection or direct once airborne to cut corners and speed up the route.
Not all that complex. If you don't have paper charts nor a plotter you can utilize skyvector or some other flight planning program and get the radials/distances calculated for you...even DUAT(S) will do it for you and isn't particularly cumbersome.
In short, be an athlete and make it happen. And don't accept an illegal flight plan, if nothing else when you call clearance say something to the effect of "we are going to be /A today...request a reroute if able"
My dad used a sextant as a Nav. So, there .
Yes, I know that. I'm saying that since we have no way of accurately plotting out a radial with the Jeppesen FD app our Flight Followers/Dispatchers must agree on a radial outbound. One degree off at 130nm out before changing over to the next VOR could make us up to over 2 miles off course (1 in 60 rule) at the VOR service volume limit. I don't want any phone numbers from a center controller because we're off course.
So call the dispatcher and make them figure out the radials. If they file the route wrong, throw it back to them and say fix it. When you do, then we'll go. Use some PIC authority to set that parking break until stuff is correct and legal. I might bring it to someone's attention before it gets to that point, but if they refuse to address the problem then just sit there.Yes, I know that. I'm saying that since we have no way of accurately plotting out a radial with the Jeppesen FD app our Flight Followers/Dispatchers must agree on a radial outbound. One degree off at 130nm out before changing over to the next VOR could make us up to over 2 miles off course (1 in 60 rule) at the VOR service volume limit. I don't want any phone numbers from a center controller because we're off course.
First of all, I don't file my own flight plans. We are an airline. Our Flight Followers are paid to do it. We have a 30 minute callout from phone call to showing up at the counter to look at the flight release. Another 30 minutes to get out to the airplane and fire up. Doing our own flight planning is simply impossible due to time.
I am not going to be plotting out any lines or using SkyVector (no computers are available to us at Operations anyway) when I'm busy sneaking in a quick shower at 2am for my 30 minutes showtime while our Flight Followers are supposed to be filing a proper and legal flight plan. It's not my job since I have no time to even do it, although I will be there to catch their errors and make them change it as I deal with preflighting the airplane they want blocking out in 30 minutes.
We as pilots cannot file our own flight plans - we are an airline with GOM/Ops Specs regulations that we must follow just like any other 121 airline. I'm not going to be a hero and file my own routing when it's completely against our SOPs without coordinating with dispatch.
Thankfully, in a few weeks I'll be on the DC-9 as Captain anyway and won't be having to deal with non-GPS aircraft. I merely wanted to ensure I was doing things correctly with this particular aircraft and I think you guys helped me confirm that I have.
So call the dispatcher and make them figure out the radials. If they file the route wrong, throw it back to them and say fix it. When you do, then we'll go. Use some PIC authority to set that parking break until stuff is correct and legal. I might bring it to someone's attention before it gets to that point, but if they refuse to address the problem then just sit there.
Here something to think about. You might get fired for causing all this trouble when other guys aren't making an issue. I'd suggest you talk to your boss and see what he suggests. If you don't like the answer then expect to not be working there much longer and/or seek other employment. By the way, if Center thinks your a tad off while doing your VOR to VOR radial thing, they will give you a vector down the road. They aren't going to notice, or care, about a mile or two. It's all about vertical separation these days. That makes them happy.
First of all, I don't file my own flight plans. We are an airline. Our Flight Followers are paid to do it. We have a 30 minute callout from phone call to showing up at the counter to look at the flight release. Another 30 minutes to get out to the airplane and fire up. Doing our own flight planning is simply impossible due to time.
I am not going to be plotting out any lines or using SkyVector (no computers are available to us at Operations anyway) when I'm busy sneaking in a quick shower at 2am for my 30 minutes showtime while our Flight Followers are supposed to be filing a proper and legal flight plan. It's not my job since I have no time to even do it, although I will be there to catch their errors and make them change it as I deal with preflighting the airplane they want blocking out in 30 minutes.
We as pilots cannot file our own flight plans - we are an airline with GOM/Ops Specs regulations that we must follow just like any other 121 airline. I'm not going to be a hero and file my own routing when it's completely against our SOPs without coordinating with dispatch.
Thankfully, in a few weeks I'll be on the DC-9 as Captain anyway and won't be having to deal with non-GPS aircraft. I merely wanted to ensure I was doing things correctly with this particular aircraft and I think you guys helped me confirm that I have.
Oops, I should've specified. I apologize.Chill man, you said you are flying a Falcon 20...you never said airline. I have flown with a pseudo dispatch before and filed my own plans at times...not that cosmic but if your operation/schedule/"it's his job not mine"/GOM don't allow you to take matters into your own hands then don't take the airplane, that's fine! Call dispatch or the Chief Pilot and discuss proper non GPS aircraft dispatch and flight plan requirements. Your basic assessment of what is and isn't legal was correct.
Enjoy the DC-9, from what I have heard it is a neat plane.
Then I'm not sure what the issue is.I do exercise my PIC authority and set the parking brake until it's fixed - me the majority of us do care about flying legally.