Ferry Flights

jwp_145 said:
Well then you'd have nothing to worry about. WHen the PassTravel department calls you and asks some questions about your routings, you could easily explain them, and problem solved.

What I'm talking about it, for example a guy here in Tulsa who ferries planes on the side and has a job at American. One way trips every week from tulsa to some far off place with no return trip? That is what raises red flags... how he has managed to do it for so long is beyond me.
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I don't work for BeagleVoy either. ;)
 
USMCmech said:
Ferry flying is a great way to build flight time. The problem is that there are way too many low timers who will use their daddy's pass privileges to rack up free flight time. Meanwhile I demand that the owner buy me an airline ticket and charge 300/day for singles and 400/day for twins or turboprops, plus all expenses.
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I'm curious, with all of the cheap options out there with pass benefits, do you get many customers charging this way?
 
jwp_145 said:
American Airlines has software that will flag someone who is always doing one-way nonrevving. THey'll call the individual and start asking questions.
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That's weird, a lot of times when I was with AA I ised to fly places meet up with friends and end up driving back or vice versa. Never got a call...maybe it's jumpseating only?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm betting such software doesn't exist and is just a story spread around to scare people.
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THis is coming from my father, an AA employee, who had a friend who would deliver rental cars using his pass bennys. So its not like a friends cousins uncle type of thing.
And I imagine its not something that gets flagged if you do it a few times, but consistently over months and months of doing it regularly. Same way the airlines have a program that scouts out people using Hidden City tickets... its very easy to identify.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm curious, with all of the cheap options out there with pass benefits, do you get many customers charging this way?
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I usually only do one or two flights a month, which are mostly locally based airplanes flying out and back in the same day. Most of my business is with pilots who are managing light airplanes for owners (or partnerships) who operate them strictly pt 91. I'e flown a Twin Cessna, Malibu, Bonanza, Cherokee 6, Cirrus, and several other airplanes for several companies locally. Last year, I was doing 1-2 flights a week while attending school full time, the guy who took over my job when I went to the airlines is making twice what I do and is flying 3-4 days a week.

Despite the reputation, I have yet to meet the manager who will touch a "I'll fly for free flight time" pilot, due to the liability those low timers represent and the insurance requirements. A healthy amount of total time is required (at least 800TT) as well as experience in a variety of complex/HP airplanes. You can get a gig flying a type that you have never flown before (such as a Barron) if you have experience in similar aircraft (Bonanza and plenty of twin time). Mostly you need a reputation of reliability and flexibility
 
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I used to ferry 210s all over the place for a dealer here in Tulsa, but since the previous 2,000 hours of my flight time are twin turbojet I would have no bidness getting into a HP single!
 
I knew a guy who had over 2000 hours on ferry permits. He had over 14,000 hours total time, ALL in GA singles and twins. He had an A&P, was very mechanically inclined, fluent in Spanish and Portuguese. One of his specialties was repossession flights in South America. He did numerous test flights for an overhaul shop too. This is what a 'typical' and 'real' ferry pilot should look like, or at least emulate.

Nobody is going to look at a noob time builder and throw many bones his way when there are real professionals out there.

Oh, BTW he was shot at several times doing repossession flights.
 
cezzna said:
I knew a guy who had over 2000 hours on ferry permits. He had over 14,000 hours total time, ALL in GA singles and twins. He had an A&P, was very mechanically inclined, fluent in Spanish and Portuguese. One of his specialties was repossession flights in South America. He did numerous test flights for an overhaul shop too. This is what a 'typical' and 'real' ferry pilot should look like, or at least emulate.

Nobody is going to look at a noob time builder and throw many bones his way when there are real professionals out there.

Oh, BTW he was shot at several times doing repossession flights.
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That sounds sort of like one of my co-workers. He speaks English and German, so he found a niche between US and Germany. For twenty years he flew anything from C172s to CJs (he's typed) all around the globe. This line of work has surprising more to it than just flying A-B. Getting an airplane tanked, the flight planning, knowing who has fuel and when, owning proper gear, know the airline schedules to get home... I call him a living en route chart.

He tells me that he has lost count of the number of times he has flown across the Atlantic but it is some where in the neighborhood of 300 in single pistons and 100 in light twins and larger aircraft. He's done the Pacific too. Once with a Cirrus SR20. Balls of steel and fascinating stories.
 
cezzna said:
I knew a guy who had over 2000 hours on ferry permits. He had over 14,000 hours total time, ALL in GA singles and twins. He had an A&P, was very mechanically inclined, fluent in Spanish and Portuguese. One of his specialties was repossession flights in South America. He did numerous test flights for an overhaul shop too. This is what a 'typical' and 'real' ferry pilot should look like, or at least emulate.

Nobody is going to look at a noob time builder and throw many bones his way when there are real professionals out there.

Oh, BTW he was shot at several times doing repossession flights.
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My God that doesn't sound fun at all
 
tlewis95 said:
Yeah....you are 3 for 3 here...using CASS to get to ferry jobs, doing it for the flight time (I wouldn't trust anyone that would want to ferry my airplane for free anyway. It's a lot of work) and wanting to ferry at night are all pretty bad ideas. I've had a whole bunch of issues come up on ferry trips that ended up being pretty minor events but would have been a totally different story if it were night time.
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I can only imagine, I was just curious as to how the whole process work. Thanks for the insight, appreciate it!
 
Luigi said:
That's weird, a lot of times when I was with AA I ised to fly places meet up with friends and end up driving back or vice versa. Never got a call...maybe it's jumpseating only?
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I travel one way to either SAV or JFK all the time. There's no flight from SAV to MCO, so I rent cars and drive back and forth a lot. So far, no one has ever asked about it.

This week was/will be rent a car in MCO, drive to SAV, fly to JFK tonight, fly to MCO on Wednesday. Yay.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I travel one way to either SAV or JFK all the time. There's no flight from SAV to MCO, so I rent cars and drive back and forth a lot. So far, no one has ever asked about it.

This week was/will be rent a car in MCO, drive to SAV, fly to JFK tonight, fly to MCO on Wednesday. Yay.
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Yeah I hear you man. Every time I nonrev I always book one way because I don't know where I'll end up.
 
Luigi said:
Yeah I hear you man. Every time I nonrev I always book one way because I don't know where I'll end up.
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Ya but do you eventually non-rev back to your home?

You guys aren't grasping what I'm saying. Continually nonrevving from TUL-LAX with NO RETURN week after week will draw attention to you. PassTravel is going to have some questions.
 
jwp_145 said:
Ya but do you eventually non-rev back to your home?

You guys aren't grasping what I'm saying. Continually nonrevving from TUL-LAX with NO RETURN week after week will draw attention to you. PassTravel is going to have some questions.
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Even assuming what you say is correct (highly doubtful) what pilots are going to be ferrying aircraft from that specific city pair every single week for years?

I mean come on.

I knew an F/O (now CA) who started up a ferry business many years ago using pass benefit holding pilots. It grew fairly busy.
 
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