fatal float crash
- Thread starter cmill
- Start date
WacoFan
Bigly
I didn't even know you could do that. I wouldn't argue with people under my own name if I knew that - I would pick an alias like "Peter Gozinya" or "Heywood Jablome" to blast Jtrain and such. All this time I've been taking the ire for my opinions...what a shame.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
Seriously, how many of us actually have an EVAC kit ready? Have you ever tried to kick out a 172 windscreen? it's not really funn. Those safety hammers that have belt cutters really, really are a good thing to have close at hand, no matter what vehicle you are in.
I am guessing that mike D did water egress training... and he can chime in, but, in the moments after a crash, I can say, your hands, feet, and fine motor skills are gone. The Adrenalin is just kicking way to high. Trying to find a seat buckle, and undo it with 200lbs of weight on it, is not easy. If you have stressed the metal in the buckle, you may not be able to undo it. A Bright orange egress tool is designed to be easy to use, requiring almost no fine motor skills....
I digress, it's for another thread.
WacoFan
Bigly
This is an excellent post and I second your call for another thread - at some point - where Cmill could maybe give some thoughts and opinions regarding float operations, emergency egress training, etc.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
That stinks. Sorry.
Did the helo dunker just a month ago. Spot on about the disorientation. Big things, know where your exits are, establish a reference point and hold onto it........door sill, something you can picture in your mind (eyesight will pretty much be useless). When violent motion ceases, open your exit if its near you, unstrap/unbuckle, and get out. Unstrap/unbuckle first obviously if you have to move towards an exit such as one not right next to you. Only let go of your reference point in order to move to another one, or to exit the cockpit.......otherwise, maintain it and use your other free hand to do things like unbuckle, etc. Other good items to have are, as mentioned, a belt cutter or egress tool, and even possibly a HEEDs bottle. Airplanes float better and longer than helos, but when upside down in the water, that floating time doesn't matter if you're submerged in the inverted cockpit. Though designed for helicopters, the Helicopter Emergency Egress Device bottle, or HEEDs, is a bottle of compressed air we carry with a mouthpiece on it.....kind of like a mini scuba tank. Gives you enough air to sustain in order to buy you a little time. If you go this route, make sure you get trained on how to use it and can do so without thought. Used improperly will kill you quicker than if you didn't have it......ie, breating in water instead of clearing the mouthpiece prior to first breath, etc.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
First, thanks everyone for the support.
Second, Im not gonna spend a lot of time arguing with someone who wont even use his own name. This accident has nothing to do with what happened the first time (where the plane got blown over sitting on the water.) This was a training flight, and if you wanna start accusations about "super pilot" going out and practicing in a tropical storm, then prove it. Local wx, radar, etc. Someone died, and you're more concerned about an obviously personal grudge you have with him. I'll go out on a limb and just say next time be sure and turn the fuel selector ALL the way over.
The NTSB is investigating, and I they find anything that happened was wreck-less, then ill leave and never come back.
Now that thats out of the way, apparently the plane landed flat and the front of the floats "sucked" forward. Not a bid deal and not uncommon. Somehow it went from a suck to a full blown flip.
Egress training is huge. I wont get into the details about what happened once the plane was flipped over, but the guy was conscious. He wasnt able to get pulled out until about five minutes later, and he had managed to unbuckle himself, and was floating in the plane. Apparently he had his belt undone before the plane was filled up, which in training you learn its the last thing you wanna do. Either way, the guy might have been at a dis-advantage regardless. Once he was pulled out, and after trying CPR, he was found with two different asthma inhalers.
I dont know how severe it might have been, but i know i found it difficult enough to hold my breath, just being a smoker. I cant imagine what it would be like possibly having an attack triggered and then trying to work my way out. Either way, i'm positive that egress training is a huge benefit.
Thats a great point about EVAC kits, but i know out here, thats just never been a problem, but then again, this was never a problem either. It will defiantly be a consideration now, though. They're also talking about having the red cross come in and give all the pilots CPR training. I certainly dont want to get in a situation where i manage to pull someone out, and have no idea what to do. We're all learning a lot from this around here.
Second, Im not gonna spend a lot of time arguing with someone who wont even use his own name. This accident has nothing to do with what happened the first time (where the plane got blown over sitting on the water.) This was a training flight, and if you wanna start accusations about "super pilot" going out and practicing in a tropical storm, then prove it. Local wx, radar, etc. Someone died, and you're more concerned about an obviously personal grudge you have with him. I'll go out on a limb and just say next time be sure and turn the fuel selector ALL the way over.
The NTSB is investigating, and I they find anything that happened was wreck-less, then ill leave and never come back.
Now that thats out of the way, apparently the plane landed flat and the front of the floats "sucked" forward. Not a bid deal and not uncommon. Somehow it went from a suck to a full blown flip.
Egress training is huge. I wont get into the details about what happened once the plane was flipped over, but the guy was conscious. He wasnt able to get pulled out until about five minutes later, and he had managed to unbuckle himself, and was floating in the plane. Apparently he had his belt undone before the plane was filled up, which in training you learn its the last thing you wanna do. Either way, the guy might have been at a dis-advantage regardless. Once he was pulled out, and after trying CPR, he was found with two different asthma inhalers.
I dont know how severe it might have been, but i know i found it difficult enough to hold my breath, just being a smoker. I cant imagine what it would be like possibly having an attack triggered and then trying to work my way out. Either way, i'm positive that egress training is a huge benefit.
Thats a great point about EVAC kits, but i know out here, thats just never been a problem, but then again, this was never a problem either. It will defiantly be a consideration now, though. They're also talking about having the red cross come in and give all the pilots CPR training. I certainly dont want to get in a situation where i manage to pull someone out, and have no idea what to do. We're all learning a lot from this around here.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Good idea also, we all carry pocket knives around here, but honestly, i think i might forget i even had it with me.
BaronPete
Jaw Harp Troubadour
I realize nothing will substitute for personally going through an egress course, but can you comment as to why this is? It's just a survival fact I'd like to tuck away in the mental filing cabinet, as my initial reaction would be to unfasten immediately.
BaronPete
Jaw Harp Troubadour
Most people think i'm a weirdo for carrying around knife with a belt cutter while I fly, but I presently have a Gerber CLS knife. Question is, where can i find a seat belt other than ones I need and use to test it out? Could I go to a junk yard and just say "Hey, can I cut up some of your seatbelts?"
I explained it above. It's because you lose references when you get tossed from your seat before the motion stops. Staying strapped until at least the major motion stops, you know where you are and your references are where you mentally expect them, since you can't see. If the plane is going to rollover and you're unstrapped, you'll be so discombobulated and disoriented, you may not know where to feel for an exit since it's not in the normal place or normal orientation.
BaronPete
Jaw Harp Troubadour
Gotcha, I read your post; just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I was missing.
Bumblebee
Commodore
you might go to your local fire station and see what they would recommend. I know we were always appreciative of someone who was thinking ahead, and wanted to develop survival skills.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Well, the seatbelt keeps you tucked in tight. Un-buckle it, and you have no kind of leverage to force a door or window open, you're basically weightless. I made the mistake my first time under in the dunk take. Went to push the door, which was barely even held on, and bounced right off of it.
In training they kinda explained water being like space. if you're not strapped down, you're gonna float away. Everyone knows that, but you never really think of it in that context.
I dont remember the little acronym they gave us, but basically find your exit, open it (the door for instance) then hold on to it, (the door frame), unbuckle, and pull yourself out.
It helped me a lot to slow down and actually grasp where i wanted to go and pull myself out. Being uspide down, you'd be surprised how easy it is to go the wrong way.
BaronPete
Jaw Harp Troubadour
Thanks, that's a great idea!
rvg203
Well-Known Member
I roll with 4 Gerber knives, one in each side seat pocket in my car. Never know when you or your pax are gonna need to cut the belts. Especially driving in the mountains with a fresh coat of pow on the ground (and I-70!)
Thanks to you guys, I'm gonna start packing when I fly too. Great idea! One of the reasons I love this site.
Thanks to you guys, I'm gonna start packing when I fly too. Great idea! One of the reasons I love this site.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
For the car, I made sure my wife had something to break the glass. Benchmade has the Houdini Pro. Seems very nice, but I doubt it'll work very well on plexiglass.
rvg203
Well-Known Member
That's pretty sweet. I might have to pick it up just for the name
Either that or roll with a crash axe along with the knives. Gerber makes a good product but I don't think I could bust the windshield with it.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
My thoughts go out to you Cory...I am sorry for your loss.
We are required to carry knives with us on the C-5. Why you ask? One of the findings of the Dover crash was that a slide inflated and had wedged one of the loadmasters inside the plane. Bad place to be if the plane is on fire!!!
Just goes to show that you can't every be over prepared. Good advice too Mike D...
What's up with alias usernames? I thought that was grounds for immediate BANNING?
We are required to carry knives with us on the C-5. Why you ask? One of the findings of the Dover crash was that a slide inflated and had wedged one of the loadmasters inside the plane. Bad place to be if the plane is on fire!!!
Just goes to show that you can't every be over prepared. Good advice too Mike D...
What's up with alias usernames? I thought that was grounds for immediate BANNING?