Fatal crash at PDK

I was there. I saw them setting up for their near pass, but I was primarily watching my son climb on the Dekalb PD's Astar helicopter. I didn't see the initial impact, but did see the plane come to a stop.

The fire was quite intense, and (as discussed on my facebook wall @MikeD) the 1:45 that it took CFR to get water on it felt like an absolute eternity. Just before the first truck appeared, I commented to the cop next to me "where the hell is CFR?? They are parked right freaking there! (literally a football field-ish away)" I spoke with another southernjets guy who was there, and we both thought it was closer to 3 minutes to get water on it. Only when the video came out did we realize it was less.

I knew seeing that fire that there was no way they were going to be pulling a living body from it. Seeing the impact on video later on, I kind of doubt he survived the initial impact with the ground (thankfully, to some extent).

His mentor and friend, Gary Ward was in the other plane. You can see him do a couple loops above not long after he came to a stop. Not sure if he was trying to see what shape the plane was in, provide a distraction to the crowd, or give a salute to his friend. I felt so incredibly bad for him loitering helpless above the airport while CFR worked the situation.

It was particularly eerie walking to the car with 15,000 other people in virtual silence.

RIP Greg. :(
 
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People don't realize how dangerous airshow flying is.

Low level, maximum performance, often highly modified experimental aircraft. Plus pilots that are trying to push the limits to impress the other pilots, not the run of the mill person seeing the show.

Seeing what I saw today doesn't change the fact that I would have absolutely loved to have been driving one of those fantastic machines pushing the limits.
 
MikeD said:
Never good to see them happen. I remember this one at KNZJ as well as the Corsair at the Phoenix 500 a year later.

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I was there for the Corsair, it was so quiet as the crowd watched the plane fly straight into the ground(after Kevin bailed) that you could have heard a pin drop. Hate it when these things happen.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
His mentor and friend, Gary Ward was in the other plane. You can see him do a couple loops above not long after he came to a stop. Not sure if he was trying to see what shape the plane was in, provide a distraction to the crowd, or give a salute to his friend. I felt so incredibly bad for him loitering helpless above the airport while CFR worked the situation.
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Looked to me as if he was just still flying his half of the routine, not aware of the crash yet.

In the airshow biz, a crash is usually a "knock it off", followed by a cessation of maneuvering and a climb to safe altitude.
 
Hacker15e said:
Looked to me as if he was just still flying his half of the routine, not aware of the crash yet.

In the airshow biz, a crash is usually a "knock it off", followed by a cessation of maneuvering and a climb to safe altitude.
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Fascinating... there was seemingly such a delay from the impact to the loops, but again there is the time compression witnessing it.

That may very well be the case.
 
knot4u said:
I was there for the Corsair, it was so quiet as the crowd watched the plane fly straight into the ground(after Kevin bailed) that you could have heard a pin drop. Hate it when these things happen.
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Yeah same. Went straight into the former GM proving grounds east of the base across Ellsworth there. Sad loss of a plane. But man, he had to leave it, fast as that fire was spreading.
 
From the other SJI instructor there today in our facebook group:

Was there and saw the accident as well...It appeared that Greg was a bit behind in the cross maneuver. The MX was low and fast in level flight while the Pitts was still on the 45 down line. He briefly flicked left and right as if trying to decide which side he would need to pass on. My guess is that he focused on Gary in the MX and not the ground. The impact speed was very high. I too was surprised at how long it took for the truck to start spraying; they were sitting in position just off the runway. (PeanuckleCRJ)'s observation on the timeliness of CFR is right on. Sad day.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
. I too was surprised at how long it took for the truck to start spraying; they were sitting in position just off the runway. (PeanuckleCRJ)'s observation on the timeliness of CFR is right on. Sad day.
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Did you correct said SJI instructor, who I'm guessing isn't an ARFF firefighter? :)
 
MikeD said:
Did you correct said SJI instructor, who I'm guessing isn't an ARFF firefighter? :)
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I corrected my observation of time in response.

That instructor is a legendary ATL area pilot who retired from NW. He's literally done it all in aviation, and is one of the most respected instructors out there by earning it. He's a legend for all the right reasons, and I do not name someone as a legend lightly.

I'm telling you, Mike... they were posted around 500 feet away from where it came to rest. It was a legitimate wtf moment watching that guy burn hard... and then seeing that the first truck to approach had no fighting capability. That was when I knew it was going to be a fatality without seeing the impact.

With that said (and the apparent correct "ready to go" response time), it's something I'm going to make sure is passed through to our instructor group, and hopefully the rest of the airline. Most in duress situations assume that CFR is out there and on freq much quicker. I'll be starting a timer on our on fire aborts and demonstrating how it will more likely play out.

Greg will not have died in vain, I will do my best ensure it.

With absolute sincerity, thank you for your excellent clarification in how things actually work in the real world.

(check out his analysis of how he got into the situation- that is something I'll really trust)
 
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That fully sucks. As to the whys and wherefores, I defer to those who knew the pilot in question, but I'll leave it at "I think it's awesome that people still do this stuff, with the full knowledge that it's kinda dangerous. Duh."
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
I corrected my observation of time in response.

That instructor is a legendary ATL area pilot who retired from NW. He's literally done it all in aviation. I'm telling you, Mike... they were posted around 500 feet away from where it came to rest. It was a legitimate wtf moment watching that guy burn hard... and then seeing that the first truck to approach had no fighting capability. That was when I knew it was going to be a fatality without seeing the impact.

With that said (and the apparent appropriate even ready to go response time), it's something I'm going to make sure is passed through to our instructor group, and hopefully the rest of the airline. Most in duress situations assume that CFR is out there and on freq much quicker. I'll be starting a timer on our on fire aborts and demonstrating how it will more likely play out.

Good things will come of this, I will ensure it.
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The first truck did have firefighting capability, it's a Quint.....a combo engine/ladder truck. Problem is, it isn't an ARFF truck, it's a structural firefighting truck, meaning that they would have to pull a handline and begin attack that way; they don't have bumper turrets or the ability to initiate fire attack from the truck cab. However the actual ARFF truck was right behind it, and they likely couldn't have done it any faster, what with all the considerations that have to be taken into account when just rolling to the scene, as I detailed on the FB post. If you looked over to where they were staged, could you see the apparent state of readiness they were in? Were they in their trucks, or standing outside? Was there any crowd or barriers to maneuver around?

What pilots don't get.......is that there's far more to ARFF than just "getting the wet stuff on the red stuff". :) I'm glad the ATL pilot has done it all in aviation, but ARFF isn't apparently one of the things he'd done, all due respect. Just sayin, as someone who does this job and has for quite a long time.

As much as pilots hate Monday Morning QBing from non-pilots on things flying related, it's ironic how they're quick to do the same Monday Morning judgement to other professions, assuming that they themselves possess the answers.......just an interesting observation I've noticed in my lifetime. :D

The thing pilots need to understand about CFR is the difference between an announced and an unannounced emergency. The earlier you announce, the quicker CFR has time to stage appropriately and be ready for you. Obviously that isn't always possible, which is why the FAA mandated timeframes exist for unannounced emergency response.

With announced, you can have a response as quick as UA232 had.....with everyone ready. With unannounced, the record is still held.......I believe.....by the Manchester, England airport CFR in their response from dead-cold, to full up, with the British Airtours 737 RTO/fire in 1985.
 
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