Fake it till you can make it.
- Thread starter USMCmech
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R
Roger, Roger
Guest
When I was working on my CFI, I took a roommate up as a "practice student". I learned that being a longtime bicycle enthusiast builds some bad primacy for taxiiing an airplane. In a bike, you push forward on the left handlebar to go right. When you push forward on the left pedal to go right, problems ensue.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
My first "student" was an F-18 pilot with 5000 hours and over 400 carrier landings. Needless to say, he hadnt flown a piston twin before and it was a challenge to teach him how to land the thing! Great pilot though... and somewhat intimidating to have someone like that as your first student. Of course I didnt mention my experience at the time (300 hours)
Douglas
Old School KSUX
:drool: Death on wheels.
ILS37R
Well-Known Member
Oh man... I dread the Air Force/Navy/Marine guys. The vast majority are great, knowledgable and personable guys and gals who understand a 172 flies a little different than what they're used to, but... every once in a while...
...you get Mr. "I Have XXXX Hours flying High-Performance Jets/B-52 Bombers and You're Just a Snot-Nosed Kid Who Isn't Even Worthy to Spit-Shine my Shoes." Nothing more fun than trying to convince them that 120 is, no, not a good speed over the threshold and, yes, there is a limitation for putting the flaps down and, damnit, "Go-around." "Go-around." "My controls: we're going around." "My controls." "My &$%#ing airplane. Right now. Let go."
*sigh* That was the only flight I've ever discontinued because a student made me feel unsafe.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
yeah, thats what I thought initially, but after training about 20 military pilot ATP candidates, I never had a problem. Every one of them was extremely smart, ready to learn, and showed up for training with most of the supplement memorized. Other than some issues learning how to take off and land, they were the best pilots I have flown with and i really enjoyed flying with all of them.
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
Heck I always figured the point of having an instructor on board was to make sure the plane got back to the airport in the same condition it was when it departed.
The only three guys who have ever really scared me as a CFI were a 747-400 captain, a 757 FO (no, it wasn't Doug) and a Falcon captain.
And yes, it was always in the pattern.
It can be intimidating to fly with vastly more experienced pilots but you'd be surprised at how much you have to teach them and how willing they are to learn.
And never forget, just because the guy sitting to your left has flown everything every built to every corner of the globe since Glenn Curtiss was building airplanes doesn't mean he can't kill you just as dead as a pre-solo student.
So stay frosty.
Heck I always figured the point of having an instructor on board was to make sure the plane got back to the airport in the same condition it was when it departed.
You're right, and the CFI should always make sure that happens. But every once in a while (only when necessary) you have to let it sink in that if you (the CFI) weren't there, the plane wouldn't have arrived in the same condition as it left...
muffinman
Well-Known Member
One of my first flights was a checkout in a 172 for an army pilot. We did a few touch and goes and I mentioned to him to lower the noise a little after the initial climb so you can see over it for traffic.
The guy did really good on all the landings and in the pattern. So he drops me off at the terminal and I watch him take off with an extremely shallow climb.
My heart stopped for a second because I didn't think he was going to clear the trees.
Lesson learned: be very specific and show them a good example of what your talking about. I didn't do that this time cause the guy had XXXX hours flying in the army and thought that he would get what I was saying based off his experiences as a pilot
The guy did really good on all the landings and in the pattern. So he drops me off at the terminal and I watch him take off with an extremely shallow climb.
My heart stopped for a second because I didn't think he was going to clear the trees.
Lesson learned: be very specific and show them a good example of what your talking about. I didn't do that this time cause the guy had XXXX hours flying in the army and thought that he would get what I was saying based off his experiences as a pilot
29.92inHg
Well-Known Member
My first flight as an instructor was in a C-152. this was also my first flight in a C-152. I had just gotten back from my CFI school and stopped by the airport where I got my private on the way home. I told my Private instructor that I had my CFI ratings and he was talking to one of his students at the time. He asked me if I wanted a job and I said, that would be great. 2 seconds later he gave me his headset and told me to go fly with the guy he was talking to and teach him stalls. He said if i use the 172 speeds in the 152 I would be fine. 
So I looked at the POH real quick and then went up with the student, after getting used to the fact that I didn't fit into the plane and figuring out that a 152 doesn't have an avionics master switch. All very convincingly faked.
When I go to teach him the stalls I was a little uncertain of what to expect from him and really didn't want to spin, so I was a little cautious about the ball being centered on the power on stall. In my excitement and nervousness of my first student I didn't think about the different view of the ball from the right seat, so I kept making him add more right rudder. Everytime we stalled the plane broke hard to the right and then in my overreaction recovering the "spin" (i use that term loosely) i pushed the left rudder. The plane snapped to the left and rolled over into a spin (used not so loosly this time). We did this three times before I figured out the error of my ways and I just used the opportunity to explain to him the use of smooth vs abrupt control movements as well as spin recovery. I'm not sure he ever realized I was doing anything wrong. We both learned to look outside in a stall and if it breaks to the right just use less right rudder not left rudder, and he went on to be a fine private pilot. I also learned that the ball from the right seat is a little off center when it is coordinated. Oh yeah, and how to land a 152(its a little lower to the ground than a 172
)
I grew a lot in that first flight
So I looked at the POH real quick and then went up with the student, after getting used to the fact that I didn't fit into the plane and figuring out that a 152 doesn't have an avionics master switch. All very convincingly faked.
When I go to teach him the stalls I was a little uncertain of what to expect from him and really didn't want to spin, so I was a little cautious about the ball being centered on the power on stall. In my excitement and nervousness of my first student I didn't think about the different view of the ball from the right seat, so I kept making him add more right rudder. Everytime we stalled the plane broke hard to the right and then in my overreaction recovering the "spin" (i use that term loosely) i pushed the left rudder. The plane snapped to the left and rolled over into a spin (used not so loosly this time). We did this three times before I figured out the error of my ways and I just used the opportunity to explain to him the use of smooth vs abrupt control movements as well as spin recovery. I'm not sure he ever realized I was doing anything wrong. We both learned to look outside in a stall and if it breaks to the right just use less right rudder not left rudder, and he went on to be a fine private pilot. I also learned that the ball from the right seat is a little off center when it is coordinated. Oh yeah, and how to land a 152(its a little lower to the ground than a 172
)I grew a lot in that first flight
c172captain
Well-Known Member
During my first 100hrs of dual given (it took about this long to get comfortable) I would think of every excuse possible in the world to try to ground the flight if we were supposed to be doing pattern work (of course some students are naturally good stick & rudder guys, but for those who werent...).
I was honestly scared of doing pattern work and constantly having to fear for my life once we got closer to the ground was almost too stressful for me to handle. The first 50 patterns were fine, but then once the initial shock of having to correct went to expecting to having to correct, just constantly left a pit in my stomach as soon as we turned final. God those were rough days Now of course we're stalling with a sideslip and 30 degrees of bank 100ft above the ground before I nonchalantly mutter "my controls."
Possibly too unafraid?? I'D LIKE TO THINK SO!!!!:insane:
I was honestly scared of doing pattern work and constantly having to fear for my life once we got closer to the ground was almost too stressful for me to handle. The first 50 patterns were fine, but then once the initial shock of having to correct went to expecting to having to correct, just constantly left a pit in my stomach as soon as we turned final. God those were rough days
Now of course we're stalling with a sideslip and 30 degrees of bank 100ft above the ground before I nonchalantly mutter "my controls."Possibly too unafraid?? I'D LIKE TO THINK SO!!!!:insane:
c172,
I know what you mean about the first couple hundred hours. I just passed 100 dual given a couple weeks ago and I had a private pilot getting checked out in our C152. There was a slight crosswind out of the SE and we were operating on runway 7. So we're on final for 7 with a right crab and as we come over the threshold, he stuffs the right rudder to the firewall. Great. "Left rudder so we can we land straight, please...other left. My airplane." This was after coming down final at 50 knots (+/-) with the constant tone of my voice saying, "you're slow, pitch down. Pitch controls airspeed; power controls altitude.
CFI'ing is so much fun!
Greg
I know what you mean about the first couple hundred hours. I just passed 100 dual given a couple weeks ago and I had a private pilot getting checked out in our C152. There was a slight crosswind out of the SE and we were operating on runway 7. So we're on final for 7 with a right crab and as we come over the threshold, he stuffs the right rudder to the firewall. Great. "Left rudder so we can we land straight, please...other left. My airplane." This was after coming down final at 50 knots (+/-) with the constant tone of my voice saying, "you're slow, pitch down. Pitch controls airspeed; power controls altitude.
CFI'ing is so much fun!
Greg
Douglas
Old School KSUX
Being a CFI IS fun and somedays you know you are alive and in the moment when you hear that stall warning horn go off base to final and it takes every ounce not to take over but to calmly talk them through recovery.
Now that is a Job.
Whats the problem? It's called terrain masking. He's Army...anything above 100 AGL is nosebleed altitudes!
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I learned to fly before I new how to drive. In someways, it makes it easier, you don't have any pre-conceived notions about things. I had soloed after I could drive, but really, I probably had more time in the left seat of the airplane, than left seat of the car when I got my signoff.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Whats the problem? It's called terrain masking. He's Army...anything above 100 AGL is nosebleed altitudes!
Shallow = good = airspeed first (not =) stall spin crash burn after powerplant failure in heavier single.
That's my logic anyway.
There's alot of merit to that logic. Agree.