Fake it till you can make it.

[USMCmech]

A thread in general topics made me think of this.

How many of you remember your first few hours of dual given. Any good CFI knows how little he really knows with only 300 hours total time. Yet, student pilots look to you as an expert about all things in aviation.

I didn't tell my first student to solo that I hadn't done this before, until we were on the way back to our home base.

I got checked out in a DA-20 in 1.2 and started teaching two students who both had 5 hours in the type. Had my first bird strike in that plane too.

What other stories do you guys have.

 

[Roger, Roger]

First student x-country in the DA-42 we landed with probably a 25 knot xwind component at night. I'd never landed the thing with more than about 10 knots of xwind.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Even though I wasn't Orville Wright, I feel that I have been adequately prepared for all of my instruction flights. I guess one example for me was that I only had 1 hour of actual instrument when I had my CFII, but I never felt that I wasn't prepared for IMC flight.

 

[gomntwins]

Even though I wasn't Orville Wright, I feel that I have been adequately prepared for all of my instruction flights. I guess one example for me was that I only had 1 hour of actual instrument when I had my CFII, but I never felt that I wasn't prepared for IMC flight.

I agree with that to a certain degree, but I still viewed my CFI as a license (or certificate) to learn. The simple truth is, until you have some hours of dual given under your belt, and even though you've had all the proper training to teach and are competent... you're still learning just as many new things as that first student you teach.

My first flight as a flight instructor my student put me into a spin doing power on stalls (I had taken this student over from another instructor and we were preparing for his checkride). I knew the spin was coming, knew I was comfortable in recovering from spins, we were at a safe altitude, we had cleared the area and I knew nobody was around, I knew the airplane was certified for spins, and I knew he'd learn something (we'd already done a few stalls and I couldn't get him to believe the rudder was important)! Ok, let's spin! What I didn't know was that he would freeze on the controls and I would literally have to smack him in the head before he'd give up the controls to me. I recovered.... recovered below an altitude I was comfortable with. He knew all about positive exchange of controls, he knew about everything I could think of for a safe flight in our pre-briefing. What he and I didn't know was in that situation, a first time spin, his reaction was going to be to freeze. Learning experience I was not taught... but smacking a student on the side of the head works well in that situation. Shook me up a little, but I was back in the plane pretty quick. Did what I needed to do. Worked out well enough.

 

[moxiepilot]

I flew with the Incredible Hulk on a discovery flight. Pretty much on all DFs I let the prospect taxi, take off, and land through verbal guidance.

When the hulk wasnt responding well, I took as much control of the plane as I could but his vice grip and frozen stature prevented that fairly significantly.

I had to tell him a number of times to release a bit of the death grip so that I could assist him more.

It wasn't threatening, but it was definitely uncomfortable knowing if he hadn't responded, that overpowering him to release the controls would have been some challenge

 

[ILS37R]

Early on I was given a student who was finishing their PPL in the DA-20. I got checked out in the plane--for a whopping total of 1.3--before I started teaching this student and his 30ish hours in type. I still had plenty to teach him, but I'd be lying if I said my landings were better than his during the first few lessons.

Speaking of which, one thing I've decided is entirely lacking in CFI training is a few lessons on: "How to Save Student Landings and/or Go-Around when They do Stupid Stuff Ten Feet Above the Ground." We all figure it out, sooner or later, but, man, I was unprepared for that, at first.

I also learned G1000, GPS approaches and how to use an autopilot completely on-the-fly (oh the crappy fleet I received my training in...), but those were all pretty intuitive for me.

 

[Zero1Niner]

What a great thread subject. I just finished up my CFI, and quite honestly, I feel totally inadequate to be teaching. There is soo much I dont know. I suppose the examiner felt I was ready, but hardly feels that way to me.

 

[Zero1Niner]

Speaking of which, one thing I've decided is entirely lacking in CFI training is a few lessons on: "How to Save Student Landings and/or Go-Around when They do Stupid Stuff Ten Feet Above the Ground." We all figure it out, sooner or later, but, man, I was unprepared for that, at first.

Sure would have LOVED to have had some focus on this in my training.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Sure would have LOVED to have had some focus on this in my training.

We have an instructor here who does a flight of "bad student" stuff with all his MEI students. Basically, he goes up and does all sorts of stupid things to make sure that they can safely recover from them. Stuff like actually feathering the wrong engine in flight, stepping on the wrong rudder in the pattern during an engine failure, trying to land with the gear up, all kinds of fun.

 

[MusketeerMan]

Man..I actually miss the instructing days and wish I could go back to it quite often. I'm a bit of an airport rat (small airports) and just loved being there on a daily basis. My first solo sign off was nerve wracking...felt like I was sending off my kid to the first day of school. For me personally, it was extremely satisfying seeing a student pass a checkride for the first time. The one that sticks out to me was an older guy who definitely was a tad different, and had moved around from instructor to instructor at a different flight school. He's a structural engineer and a walking brain. He came in one day and I told him he needed to get it done and that I could do it for him. He finished 5 weeks later and the examiner said he was teaching him things. It was cool to see him turn into a 16 year old afterwards...so excited.

 

[mhcasey]

Brief hijack: I have never gained anything from or enjoyed any of Jhugz's posts. Are you and Approach Control buddies?

Return to topic: My biggest bonehead move in the first week was getting lost on a local flight. Lots of maneuvering and clearing turns and eventually I realized that a lot of south central Texas looks the same. I never admitted to being lost...just "showed the student how to get radar services to get home."

 

[Roger, Roger]

Return to topic: My biggest bonehead move in the first week was getting lost on a local flight. Lots of maneuvering and clearing turns and eventually I realized that a lot of south central Texas looks the same. I never admitted to being lost...just "showed the student how to get radar services to get home."

Nice one, MH!

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

For some reason it won't let me quote Jhugz, so here is my response.

What exactly is a diagonal cloud? Never heard of it. Anyways, I wouldn't what effect the clouds had on my body, because day one of instrument training tells you to ignore your body's response and to trust the instruments. 45 hours of simulated training was more than enough to prepare me to adequately teach people to fly in or out of the clouds, not only in my mind, but in the FAA's as well, since they don't require any actual for the instrument or CFII.

 

[Greg01]

I'm mostly a lurker (with the occasional post) but mojo's post about what jhugz said struck me in a way that made me want to respond.

As I'm sure you all know, he will be in for a heck of a surprise when he is "instructing an instrument student" on an approach to minimums in actual weather and finds out that it isn't the same thing as taking off the hood and seeing the runway on a sunny day. And forgetting to turn on the lights at an uncontrolled field while shooting a non-precision approach to minimums will probably also be a little snag...

I don't mean to "post and run" but the quoted paragraph from jhugz made me want to jot some brief thoughts down.

Take care,
Greg

 

[jhugz]

For some reason it won't let me quote Jhugz, so here is my response.

What exactly is a diagonal cloud? Never heard of it. Anyways, I wouldn't what effect the clouds had on my body, because day one of instrument training tells you to ignore your body's response and to trust the instruments. 45 hours of simulated training was more than enough to prepare me to adequately teach people to fly in or out of the clouds, not only in my mind, but in the FAA's as well, since they don't require any actual for the instrument or CFII.

Like where a cloud is diagonal on the top or the bottom to give you a false horizon...you are a II right? So the logic you are using is that not only is simulated instrument flying the same as actual...which in no way shape or form true...that the FAA does require actual for you to teach in it. Im pretty sure the FAA doesn't require time in type either. Your logic is flawed and you are using a double standard. You are teaching a student about medical conditions that you have probally never experienced. You had a whopping 1.0 of actual in cruise more then likely. What were you going to do when you were so disorientated inbetween layers that you felt like you were going to be sick. The title of this thread is brilliant...you fake it till you make it. Any CFI that says different is talking out of there rear end.

MODs: Why was my other post deleted. I am pretty sure that not only it did not break any forum rules it didn't even come close.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I'm mostly a lurker (with the occasional post) but mojo's post about what jhugz said struck me in a way that made me want to respond.

As I'm sure you all know, he will be in for a heck of a surprise when he is "instructing an instrument student" on an approach to minimums in actual weather and finds out that it isn't the same thing as taking off the hood and seeing the runway on a sunny day. And forgetting to turn on the lights at an uncontrolled field while shooting a non-precision approach to minimums will probably also be a little snag...

I don't mean to "post and run" but the quoted paragraph from jhugz made me want to jot some brief thoughts down.

Take care,
Greg

You are right, it is different. I didn't go darting around at 200 OVC with 3/4 Visibility when I had 1 hour of actual. I did, however, Go when it was marginal VFR to gain some actual experience in a situation where I could easily get back to VFR in case something were to happen. It was about setting personal minimums for myself and slowly lowering those minimums as I gained experience.

Like where a cloud is diagonal on the top or the bottom to give you a false horizon...you are a II right? So the logic you are using is that not only is simulated instrument flying the same as actual...which in no way shape or form true...that the FAA does require actual for you to teach in it. Im pretty sure the FAA doesn't require time in type either. Your logic is flawed and you are using a double standard. You are teaching a student about medical conditions that you have probally never experienced. You had a whopping 1.0 of actual in cruise more then likely. What were you going to do when you were so disorientated inbetween layers that you felt like you were going to be sick. The title of this thread is brilliant...you fake it till you make it. Any CFI that says different is talking out of there rear end.

MODs: Why was my other post deleted. I am pretty sure that not only it did not break any forum rules it didn't even come close.

I agree, your post shouldn't have been deleted.

Please link to a reference that mentions "diagonal cloud", as I would be interested in seeing it. Since you keep referencing my post in your checkout thread, I never said that having .5 in the airplane was inadequate to takeoff and land. I said your knowledge of the G1000 was inadequate, based on the basic questions you were asking about the system. If you remember, I said if he already had G1000 time and was just getting an insurance checkout, it wasn't a big deal. Do you not see the difference?

 

[Douglas]

Please link to a reference that mentions "diagonal cloud", as I would be interested in seeing it.

It is very real and can be very dangerous for low time guys.

Anyway on topic:
My first hundred hours were full of facts and cool tricks and very little FOI stuff tailored for each student personality. I didn't know any better, I just threw info at them it see what stuck.

The people I taught weren't ripped off and I had many people from my first one hundred hours as repeat customers for the rest of the year.

Now I have to say I am not as excited, like a little boy on christmas to go out to the practice area. It is more of, 'I know what you need to know, and I know how to make you know it. Here it is and the rest will fall in.'

Maybe that is something I can work on.

 

[Douglas]

Can we get an explanation for why a post was deleted?

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

It is very real and can be very dangerous for low time guys.

Reference? I am not trying to be a smartass, but I have never seen it before. I tried google and came up with nothing relevant to aviation/human factors.

 

[Roger, Roger]

I think the FAA files it under "false horizon", along with rows of lights at night.