Failure

I was regularly flying 10-14 aircraft when I went up for my CFI ride. If you cannot remember how many cylinders a 172 has, or for that matter, how many spark plugs per cylinder it has, you have zero business being a CFI. You shouldn't be mad at the DPE, I would be mad if he passed you. I actually find it hard to believe, and would love to throw up the BS flag and just give you the benefit of the doubt that you are kidding. I am not trying to kick you while you're down, but man, you need to take a serious look at things if you truly in fact "forgot" how many cylinders a 172 has. I assume he picked the 172 because thats the plane you were going to fly for your ride? Maybe nerves got the best of you during the oral.

The CFI oral is about teaching skills, but it is also a test of your knowledge. There are certain things you HAVE to know. You cannot turn every question back at your student for them to look up. You are expected to have commercial level knowledge, this means having a pretty good level of understanding with regards to the aircraft you are flying.
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I'm not blamming him and I get it. I should have reviewed it. I just over looked it.
 
That doesn't sound like much of a de-briefing,Beech, especially on a checkride. There needs to be some specificity on exactly what you did wrong and exactly how to correct it. He owes you at least that much. When you're ready, call the FSDO and schedule the re-take. They're a good group of ASI's there and they want you to succeed. Don't be scared of doing a checkride with them. Besides it's free.
 
I am going to assume here that you are 18 years old? You are the second person I know that failed their CFI Checkride multiple times being 18 years old. If/When it comes up in an interview, you might want to use that in the sense that, "I failed my CFI ride twice when I was 18 years old. How I am acting as a XX year old now is different that when I was 18 and I see things differently now yada yada yada yada yada, etc., etc., etc.,".

Yeah I am.
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I'm talking like a basic combustion cycle — suck squeeze bang blow... and then elucidating what parts of the engine basically handle each part of the cycle to move the crankshaft.

Of course I wasn't there, but when I evaluated students and I asked them the proverbial "What time is it?" I wanted them to tell me the time, not necessarily pull out a Quantum Physics textbook and build me an atomic clock. If he knows his stuff cold, he'll walk me through it fairly easily. If I want to test his depth of knowledge, we can talk specifics and then incorporate diagrams, facts and figures to bolster understanding.
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I can explain it, but I can't draw it. ( If that makes any sense)
 
That doesn't sound like much of a de-briefing,Beech, especially on a checkride. There needs to be some specificity on exactly what you did wrong and exactly how to correct it. He owes you at least that much. When you're ready, call the FSDO and schedule the re-take. They're a good group of ASI's there and they want you to succeed. Don't be scared of doing a checkride with them. Besides it's free.
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:)

That was all he gave me. He said change my way of studying and come back. ( I'll change my way to approach this ride and way of studying )

He said I need a strong knowledge base on how the engine works and to be able to draw diagrams. And that is the plan..the Denver FSDO seems laid back.
 
Beech90 said:
..the Denver FSDO seems laid back.
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The idea of going to the FAA isn't because they'll be "more laid back" or "easier"... many people fail with the FAA too. The reason I suggest it is because you now have two failures with this DPE and having a fresh face might help your confidence as you approach this. You could easily get an inspector who will be even more detailed.
 
rframe said:
The idea of going to the FAA isn't because they'll be "more laid back" or "easier"... many people fail with the FAA too. The reason I suggest it is because you now have two failures with this DPE and having a fresh face might help your confidence as you approach this. You could easily get an inspector who will be even more detailed.
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Wrong choice of words. I guess what I should say is they better understand this checkride is about teaching, and they may let me use my notes/lesson plans/diagrams when explaining complex subjects.

How are you going to explain Airspace to a student? Are you going to just tell him or her about it or use various tools, videos and models to explain it? The DPE didn't like that idea...the FAA should. That is what I meant to say.
 
Great job on getting to the point where you can take your CFI ride at 18. Will this hurt you long term, doubt it. Just be careful going forward.
 
Seggy said:
Great job on getting to the point where you can take your CFI ride at 18. Will this hurt you long term, doubt it. Just be careful going forward.
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Lesson learned.

I think I went into this checkride now knowledge ready, but ready to use various books to explain what I'm talking about and the DPE didn't like that.
 
If you can walk into your local Starbucks and at the drop of the hat, explain how a wing generates lift, all before condensation forms on your venti iced green tea lemonade (two pump classic) and no training aids, you understand the subject.

Walk up to a pretty girl at Starbucks, introduce yourself, tell her you're a flight instructor in training and ask if you can borrow her brain for a moment to explain the lift process. Then ask her a couple questions to see if you successfully taught.

No books.

No diagrams.

And you might make a new friend for sexy time.
 
Derg said:
If you can walk into your local Starbucks and at the drop of the hat, explain how a wing generates lift, all before condensation forms on your venti iced green tea lemonade (two pump classic) and no training aids, you understand the subject.

Walk up to a pretty girl at Starbucks, introduce yourself, tell her you're a flight instructor in training and ask if you can borrow her brain for a moment to explain the lift process. Then ask her a couple questions to see if you successfully taught.

No books.

No diagrams.

And you might make a new friend for sexy time.
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:p I'm going to try it.
And yes, I can explain how a wing generates life. It's not as complex as a engine system. Aircraft engine was a weak area for me. He found it, and exposed it.
 
So, the take away is you were not prepared, you did not possess "instructional knowledge" of the material. Hit the books, and then take @Patrick's advice and spend several sessions with another CFI in some mock orals to help identify what needs further work and help polish your presentation skills.
 
So, the take away is you were not prepared, you did not possess "instructional knowledge" of the material. Hit the books, and then take @Patrick's advice and spend several sessions with another CFI in some mock orals to help identify what needs further work and help polish your presentation skills.
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Or try to teach my dog with my chalk board. It's cheaper than paying a CFI :D

But in all seriousness that is what I will do.
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm starting to see at least part of the problem- you seem to want to use "tools" or visual aids to do your teaching for you. Those things are fine in their proper place, but don't let them become a crutch. Your reference materials are there in case you're asked something you're not certain about, or can't remember. You're not expected to know or remembereverything, but by the same token, you're not going to pass if you're having to look everything up
 
Beech90 said:
:p I'm going to try it.
And yes, I can explain how a wing generates life. It's not as complex as a engine system. Aircraft engine was a weak area for me. He found it, and exposed it.
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Or use the engine thing. Serious!

One of my friends, before his check ride, wanted to take me up and teach me a lesson to practice.

I told him that he needs to take his live-in girlfriend.

He objected because she has no interest in aviation.

So I reminded him that a large part of your job as a CFI is SELLING aviation and if he can't convince his lady friend, he might have a hell of a time retaining students.

My idea didn't work but I ended up getting some free flight time as he blabbed on and on about whatever the hell he was trying to practice.
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm starting to see at least part of the problem- you seem to want to use "tools" or visual aids to do your teaching for you. Those things are fine in their proper place, but don't let them become a crutch. Your reference materials are there in case you're asked something you're not certain about, or can't remember. You're not expected to know or remembereverything, but by the same token, you're not going to pass if you're having to look everything up
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Right. I agree, there are some things you NEED to know, like Airspace 61, 91, the general idea on how a plane flies etc.
 
Beech90 said:
I should have reviewed it. I just over looked it.
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You should absolutely not have to review how many cylinders a Skyhawk has. There's tens of thousands of these planes flying around, and damn near all of them are four bangers, along with most of it's other training brethren.

A few pebbles won't sink the ship, but a boulder will.
 
Beech90 said:
Right. I agree, there are some things you NEED to know, like Airspace 61, 91, the general idea on how a plane flies etc.
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Actualy there are only a very few things you don't need to know- that's what your reference materials are for
 
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