FAA Proposal for ATP/1500 Rule

ppragman said:
I have no problem with the increase in education. However, it screwsover freight guys. You could be a 1900 captain single pilot, or hell, two-pilot crew and not be qualified as a captain at Lakes as soon as you went over there. That's idiotic.
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Really it's not that big a deal.

Yes, Prag, you are completely competent to fly a 1900 irregardless if there are boxes or pax in the back. However, do you ever see yourself working at Gulfstream? I would hope that anyone qualified under these new rules would pass on to a "better" regional where they would have to go through the right seat anyway.

The whole idea of direct entry captians was a fluke brought on because the bottom feeder 121 operators were hiring at crazy low minimums. This would probably never happen again even without this new rule.
 
USMCmech said:
Really it's not that big a deal.

Yes, Prag, you are completely competent to fly a 1900 irregardless if there are boxes or pax in the back. However, do you ever see yourself working at Gulfstream? I would hope that anyone qualified under these new rules would pass on to a "better" regional where they would have to go through the right seat anyway.

The whole idea of direct entry captians was a fluke brought on because the bottom feeder 121 operators were hiring at crazy low minimums. This would probably never happen again even without this new rule.
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I'd prefer not to work someplace like that and frankly I doubt I'll drive a 1900captain again after this gig unless the money's good ir I come back sfter a furlough. Frankly it doesn't really affect me, hkwever its the principle of the thing alone. There are hundreds of dudes out there in the freight world who have the potential to be bypassed for upgrade when they have the seniority to upgrade at their new carrier, but only 500 multicrew time. That doesnt seem logical.
 
deadstick said:
I had to look to be sure, but Cape Air is 121, right? Soooo how does one get 1000 hrs in 121 as SIC in a 402 to qualify as PIC?
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135 for the 402s, 121 for the ATRs. Kinda sucks for all the 402 PICs who are looking to bid the left seat of the ATR directly.

EDIT: Disregard. Turns out 135 PIC counts if the operation requires an ATP.
 
dasleben said:
135 for the 402s, 121 for the ATRs. Kinda sucks for all the 402 PICs who are looking to bid the left seat of the ATR directly.

EDIT: Disregard. Turns out 135 PIC counts if the operation requires an ATP.
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But 135 PIC does NOT count if the operation does not require an ATP. This is truly brilliant.

I realize that most freight guys don't have crew time, but you absolutely cannot discount quality Multi Turbine PIC in a 1900 or Metroliner. I would FAR rather see a 121 CA who had 1000 hours as single pilot PIC in a 1900 over one who got his CA slot with 1000 hours SIC in a Barbie Jet.
 
Patrick said:
But 135 PIC does NOT count if the operation does not require an ATP. This is truly brilliant.

I realize that most freight guys don't have crew time, but you absolutely cannot discount quality Multi Turbine PIC in a 1900 or Metroliner. I would FAR rather see a 121 CA who had 1000 hours as single pilot PIC in a 1900 over one who got his CA slot with 1000 hours SIC in a Barbie Jet.
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*ladder: pulled up and secured*
 
Patrick said:
But 135 PIC does NOT count if the operation does not require an ATP. This is truly brilliant.

I realize that most freight guys don't have crew time, but you absolutely cannot discount quality Multi Turbine PIC in a 1900 or Metroliner. I would FAR rather see a 121 CA who had 1000 hours as single pilot PIC in a 1900 over one who got his CA slot with 1000 hours SIC in a Barbie Jet.
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Which is a fantastic assessment, because as far as I can tell, you have neither 1,000 hours of PIC time in a 1,900 or an 1,000 SIC hours in an RJ.

Now, I don't know EVERYONE on this forum, but of the folks that have responded in this thread, it looks like a whole 3 people in this thread fulfill both of those categories.

Not trying to dog you specifically, but this is a whole lot of talking from people that haven't done what they're attempting to discuss.
 
Yeah, the freight guys totally got shafted. No way to tap dance around that unless they didn't intend for that to happen and write in some sort of exemption. I'd highly recommend that we all "vote early and vote often" in the comments.

With that said, I am also surprised by how relatively un-gutted the rest of it was. Guess the puppymills are hurtin for bribe money.
 
Patrick said:
But 135 PIC does NOT count if the operation does not require an ATP. This is truly brilliant.

I realize that most freight guys don't have crew time, but you absolutely cannot discount quality Multi Turbine PIC in a 1900 or Metroliner. I would FAR rather see a 121 CA who had 1000 hours as single pilot PIC in a 1900 over one who got his CA slot with 1000 hours SIC in a Barbie Jet.
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I'm with ya 100%. Why my 1000+ hours flying a 402 for Cape Air counts, but a guy with 1000+ in the same 402 flying on-demand does not, is beyond me.

In the end, I think this will be a non-event; at most (and I repeat, most) airlines, you'll see 1000 SIC before you can hold the left seat. This is not always true though, especially if you're flying in the supplemental world (I've flown 450 hours in the past 12 months, and that's actually a lot).
 
jtrain609 said:
Which is a fantastic assessment, because as far as I can tell, you have neither 1,000 hours of PIC time in a 1,900 or an 1,000 SIC hours in an RJ.

Now, I don't know EVERYONE on this forum, but of the folks that have responded in this thread, it looks like a whole 3 people in this thread fulfill both of those categories.

Not trying to dog you specifically, but this is a whole lot of talking from people that haven't done a whole lot of doing.
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Well, I certainly don't have 1000 hours of SIC in an RJ, but I've got about 500 hours of PIC in a T-Prop, which will become 1000 hours of PIC within the next 12 months. So, my apologies if I'm concerned about my next career move.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Unless I'm reading your resume upside down, you'd be doggin yourself, too.
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I'm not making grandiose comments about how this is the most horrible thing in the history of horrible things.

And MikeD is trolling the thread, in case nobody noticed and is actually taking him seriously.
 
dasleben said:
135 for the 402s, 121 for the ATRs. Kinda sucks for all the 402 PICs who are looking to bid the left seat of the ATR directly.

EDIT: Disregard. Turns out 135 PIC counts if the operation requires an ATP.
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If it's 135 then must be commuter/scheduled 135 which does require an ATP, right? I was thinking how in the heck could somebody qualify for a 121 402 PIC job if that pilot didn't have the 1000 121 time.
 
deadstick said:
If it's 135 then must be commuter/scheduled 135 which does require an ATP, right? I was thinking how in the heck could somebody qualify for a 121 402 PIC job if that pilot didn't have the 1000 121 time.
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The 402s are operated under 135.
 
Patrick said:
Well, I certainly don't have 1000 hours of SIC in an RJ, but I've got about 500 hours of PIC in a T-Prop, which will become 1000 hours of PIC within the next 12 months. So, my apologies if I'm concerned about my next career move.
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By all means, be concerned, but don't get online to whine about it. Get out there and get the time that you think will be valuable and then make the move. If your job isn't doing what you want it to do, and isn't providing you with the forward momentum you want, then network yourself into the next best job. I know the professional jackass crew is happy to help you too, what with how much good we've done for a ton of other people on this website.
 
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