FAA Proposal for ATP/1500 Rule

nmineau said:
Every RJ operator out there does not offer a livable wage from day one (at least more than the people I buy my burger from in the airport) that is my opinion so rip me apart but pay more and I would have went that route.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to comment on the livable wage thing (which I agree with you) and then expand a little.
To paraphrase an "officer and a gentleman". "You gotta pay your dues for your million dollar education before you peddle your skills at United airlines." For those pilots who did not instruct or tow banners etc to reach 135 mins, the value statement was this.
They paid you $20-35 per flight hour + $1000 per hour in flight time. 1000 squared is one million. Sure this point can be argued as to how to value the time but I know a lot of folks that paid out beaucoup bucks for multi time just to meet the mins even after instructing. Talk about starvation wages, how many guys got paid $800 bucks a month to flight instruct for a year and a half or so? Did you get a high paying flying job to go from commercial to 135 pic mins?

Anyway this arrangement will be greatly diminished so it will be interesting to see how this pans out. Good luck to all.
 
So please correct me if I'm wrong

The ATP requirement for FOs will be in place.

Aviation college gradates will get a 500 hour discount (not too bad 1000 TT is fairly experianced)

There is a minimum of 1000 right seat time before upgrade to Captain (which is about 18 months of full time flying).


If that's the gist of it, then I'm fairly happy.
 
USMCmech said:
So please correct me if I'm wrong

The ATP requirement for FOs will be in place.

Aviation college gradates will get a 500 hour discount (not too bad 1000 TT is fairly experianced)

There is a minimum of 1000 right seat time before upgrade to Captain (which is about 18 months of full time flying).


If that's the gist of it, then I'm fairly happy.
Click to expand...

No! Be angry! You can't be happy about this! 5 years ago we were complaining about 500 wonders, and now that there's a fix for it, we're complaining that there's too much expected of us.

Too much expected of those of us that transport the public to see grandma. Personally, I've never complained that my doctor had too much education, and was held to too high of a standard.
 
Inverted25 said:
So what about all the charter operators like the one close to me that just has two king airs but requires its pilots to have ATP. After 2013 it will be too expensive for the average guy to go out and get one. Unless ATP comes up with a. Course that satisfies this
Click to expand...

I don't think that counts. The operator requiring an ATP is not the same as an operation for which the FAA requires an ATP.
 
granlistillo said:
Just wanted to comment on the livable wage thing (which I agree with you) and then expand a little.
To paraphrase an "officer and a gentleman". "You gotta pay your dues for your million dollar education before you peddle your skills at United airlines." For those pilots who did not instruct or tow banners etc to reach 135 mins, the value statement was this.
They paid you $20-35 per flight hour + $1000 per hour in flight time. 1000 squared is one million. Sure this point can be argued as to how to value the time but I know a lot of folks that paid out beaucoup bucks for multi time just to meet the mins even after instructing. Talk about starvation wages, how many guys got paid $800 bucks a month to flight instruct for a year and a half or so? Did you get a high paying flying job to go from commercial to 135 pic mins?

Anyway this arrangement will be greatly diminished so it will be interesting to see how this pans out. Good luck to all.
Click to expand...
no I did not but I found a job that I could fly and work where the work was primary and if I had to I could cancel flying to get by. (flew divers usually 16 hours a weekend $250 cash)
 
USMCmech said:
So please correct me if I'm wrong

The ATP requirement for FOs will be in place.

Aviation college gradates will get a 500 hour discount (not too bad 1000 TT is fairly experianced)

There is a minimum of 1000 right seat time before upgrade to Captain (which is about 18 months of full time flying).


If that's the gist of it, then I'm fairly happy.
Click to expand...

You also cannot take an ATP knowledge test without graduating from a certification class.
 
Places like Great Lakes and possibly CommutAir will possibly have to hire street captains with the 1000SIC requirement to upgrade. Where will they get the street captains? Will established FOs at other regionals actually step up and take an extended reserve slot at less pay than what they are currently making? I would think Part 135 Cargo would be a great place to pick up a street captain. Especially when they already have flown the specific "type" airframe the airline operates. How does 1000 right seat time outweigh 1000 PIC in type?
 
Maurus said:
Places like Great Lakes and possibly CommutAir will possibly have to hire street captains with the 1000SIC requirement to upgrade. Where will they get the street captains? Will established FOs at other regionals actually step up and take an extended reserve slot at less pay than what they are currently making? I would think Part 135 Cargo would be a great place to pick up a street captain. Especially when they already have flown the specific "type" airframe the airline operates. How does 1000 right seat time outweigh 1000 PIC in type?
Click to expand...

I thought Great Lakes was on the way out within a few years, anyways.
 
I am going to an online college (Not ERAU or UVU or any prestigious Aviation school) and getting a degree in Aviation. Will my school count since it is an accredited institution. Will I be eligible for the 1000 hours if my training wasn't 141?
 
purpel said:
I am going to an online college (Not ERAU or UVU or any prestigious Aviation school) and getting a degree in Aviation. Will my school count since it is an accredited institution. Will I be eligible for the 1000 hours if my training wasn't 141?
Click to expand...

No one knows until it becomes law and an infrastructure is implemented.
 
mojo6911 said:
I thought Great Lakes was on the way out within a few years, anyways.
Click to expand...
Apparently the EAS routes didn't drop off as much as I had expected. The EAS routes could stay around or a long time at the rate our government makes somewhat logical cuts.

I find the FAA's reasoning for including 135 scheduled passenger and 91K for the most part define the 135 cargo experience as well. The only weakness in 135 cargo would be the "mentoring" thing and ATP requirement, but 135 cargo can make that up with other experiences that passenger stuff just wont touch for comfort issues.

Personally I think 1000 hours in an aircraft requiring a type rating while at an air carrier (all of 121, 135, and 91K) would be the better restriction.

Somehow the FAA has completely ignored a segment of the industry that provides more qualified pilots (experience wise) than 1000 hours right seat in a jet.

purpel said:
I am going to an online college (Not ERAU or UVU or any prestigious Aviation school) and getting a degree in Aviation. Will my school count since it is an accredited institution. Will I be eligible for the 1000 hours if my training wasn't 141?
Click to expand...

You are required to go to a 141 school for your commercial instrument certificate on top of the degree according to the current proposal.
 
mojo6911 said:
You also cannot take an ATP knowledge test without graduating from a certification class.
Click to expand...
So pretty much my atp written will become useless, or will it be grandfathered in because i work for an air carrier, as it would be now i was outside (and am) out of the 24 month window?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
 
Blip16 said:
So pretty much my atp written will become useless, or will it be grandfathered in because i work for an air carrier, as it would be now i was outside (and am) out of the 24 month window?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I think that's going to depend on what your company does about this.

My company is urging us to get our ATP written exams done as soon as possible, and that we'll all have ATP's prior to this going into affect.
 
jtrain609 said:
No! Be angry! You can't be happy about this! 5 years ago we were complaining about 500 wonders, and now that there's a fix for it, we're complaining that there's too much expected of us.

Too much expected of those of us that transport the public to see grandma. Personally, I've never complained that my doctor had too much education, and was held to too high of a standard.
Click to expand...
I have no problem with the increase in education. However, it screwsover freight guys. You could be a 1900 captain single pilot, or hell, two-pilot crew and not be qualified as a captain at Lakes as soon as you went over there. That's idiotic.
 
jtrain609 said:
I think that's going to depend on what your company does about this.

My company is urging us to get our ATP written exams done as soon as possible, and that we'll all have ATP's prior to this going into affect.
Click to expand...
nothing since I am 135 and the 208 doesn't require ATP to fly.
 
ppragman said:
I have no problem with the increase in education. However, it screwsover freight guys. You could be a 1900 captain single pilot, or hell, two-pilot crew and not be qualified as a captain at Lakes as soon as you went over there. That's idiotic.
Click to expand...
Doesn't Lakes actually operate under a 135 cert? I thought I read that somewhere.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top