FAA passes another records act

M

mshunter

Well-Known Member
Yeah, not cool how deep this one goes. I can see some disgruntled operators putting things in records that are damaging. I get it, records need to be improved. But honestly, some of the things required to report are what I would consider "none of your business" or open for really screwing someone over. It should only contain "This person was employed here from this date to this date". That's it...nothing more. Imagine that you are at some 134 1/2 outfit, and they're regularly asking you to violate rules. You quit. They get pissed, and put a bunch of negative remarks in there because they're pissed you refused to break the rules. I've quit those kinds of jobs. One of those places is named after an auto manufacturer.

IMO, this ain't good.

www.avweb.com

FAA Establishes Pilot Records Database

The FAA has adopted a rule establishing an electronic Pilot Records Database and requiring air carriers and some other operators to report pilots’ employment history, training and qualifications to that database.
www.avweb.com www.avweb.com
 
What's the difference between this new thing and PRIA info ? Just more stuff and details ? Does PRIA go away now ?

I tried looking at the PRD document but it's 232 pages of gibberish so I quickly gave up.
 
bafanguy said:
What's the difference between this new thing and PRIA info ? Just more stuff and details ? Does PRIA go away now ?

I tried looking at the PRD document but it's 232 pages of gibberish so I quickly gave up.
Click to expand...

PRIA goes away. This replaces it with a giant database of all information pertaining to the airman, submitted by the FAA and previous employers. So a company can pull your file and see all your checkride failures/employment history/etc without relying on you to report the previous companies you worked for. i.e. this is what everyone assumed PRIA was in the first place.
 
“pilot drug and alcohol records, employers’ final disciplinary action records, records concerning separation of employment and verification of pilots’ motor vehicle driving records.”
The only thing I can see any objection to is the disciplinary action records. The rest of it you’re already supposed to supply to an employer so the FAA having it makes no difference. A couple of people and a couple of companies proved that current system was full of holes, I don’t know what other result anyone expected.
 
This new requirement doesn't seem out of line IF (note big "if") the submitting company is required to provide the pilot with a copy of the submission AND there is an appeal process BEFORE it becomes a part of the FFA file. Companies will use this as a opportunity to trash a pilot.
 
Roger Roger said:
“pilot drug and alcohol records, employers’ final disciplinary action records, records concerning separation of employment and verification of pilots’ motor vehicle driving records.”
The only thing I can see any objection to is the disciplinary action records. The rest of it you’re already supposed to supply to an employer so the FAA having it makes no difference. A couple of people and a couple of companies proved that current system was full of holes, I don’t know what other result anyone expected.
Click to expand...

And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Disciplinary actions. There's a whole lot of shady 134.5 operators out there that will be vindictive. The rest of it is necessary.

It doesn't/shouldn't apply to me. I'm at a place where I'm most likely done with interviews, and I keep my nose clean. But there's one place, maybe two, where I've worked that I'd be worried because we didn't leave on good terms. One place I left because I was shorted, a lot, on two paychecks and the owner has a horrible reputation. That's why I left, and it wasn't nice, for either of us. CA labor board had to get involved and his last voicemail to me was "YOU'LL NEVER FLY ANOTHER AIRPLANE AGAIN!" This gives those kinds of operations a little more power to do just that.
 
mshunter said:
And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Disciplinary actions. There's a whole lot of shady 134.5 operators out there that will be vindictive. The rest of it is necessary.

It doesn't/shouldn't apply to me. I'm at a place where I'm most likely done with interviews, and I keep my nose clean. But there's one place, maybe two, where I've worked that I'd be worried because we didn't leave on good terms. One place I left because I was shorted, a lot, on two paychecks and the owner has a horrible reputation. That's why I left, and it wasn't nice, for either of us. CA labor board had to get involved and his last voicemail to me was "YOU'LL NEVER FLY ANOTHER AIRPLANE AGAIN!" This gives those kinds of operations a little more power to do just that.
Click to expand...
People who work at places like that deserve no sympathy from me. Just because they made bad decisions doesn’t mean we should see another 3591 down the road.
 
Roger Roger said:
“pilot drug and alcohol records, employers’ final disciplinary action records, records concerning separation of employment and verification of pilots’ motor vehicle driving records.”
The only thing I can see any objection to is the disciplinary action records. The rest of it you’re already supposed to supply to an employer so the FAA having it makes no difference. A couple of people and a couple of companies proved that current system was full of holes, I don’t know what other result anyone expected.
Click to expand...
And hopefully it will prevent us from having to fill out a pria form for each previous employer at your new job. It starts to get ridiculous when you've have more than 2-3 previous employers.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
People who work at places like that deserve no sympathy from me. Just because they made bad decisions doesn’t mean we should see another 3591 down the road.
Click to expand...

Autothrust Blue said:
Yep.

Moving on.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Vindictive behavior on the part of an employer, any employer, can have ramifications to a pilot's career. This system does need checks and balances to prevent it's misuse when it comes to how and what data is inputted and made both public and is transmitted to future employers.

As an industry, we do need to close the hole in the swiss cheese that might be the catalyst of another Colgan/Atlas, but while doing that we cannot create a system that can be abused to the determent of the individual. At least in the 121 world, with AQP and a Union Contract I'm hoping to see some controls.

In my own case, I've filled out my last app and suited up for my last interview. As long as my airline is around for the next 20 or so years, in whatever form, this is where I am staying. I don't want to see good pilots career's get hurt because people without integrity have figured out a loophole in a records recording system.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
People who work at places like that deserve no sympathy from me. Just because they made bad decisions doesn’t mean we should see another 3591 down the road.
Click to expand...

You miss the point....completely.

Disciplinary actions unrelated to flying are between the previous employer and employee.

Edit: Most states have laws against that kind of information.

"Is the employee eligible for rehire" is all they're allowed to ask.
 
mshunter said:
Yeah, not cool how deep this one goes. I can see some disgruntled operators putting things in records that are damaging. I get it, records need to be improved. But honestly, some of the things required to report are what I would consider "none of your business" or open for really screwing someone over. It should only contain "This person was employed here from this date to this date". That's it...nothing more. Imagine that you are at some 134 1/2 outfit, and they're regularly asking you to violate rules. You quit. They get pissed, and put a bunch of negative remarks in there because they're pissed you refused to break the rules. I've quit those kinds of jobs. One of those places is named after an auto manufacturer.

IMO, this ain't good.

www.avweb.com

FAA Establishes Pilot Records Database

The FAA has adopted a rule establishing an electronic Pilot Records Database and requiring air carriers and some other operators to report pilots’ employment history, training and qualifications to that database.
www.avweb.com www.avweb.com
Click to expand...

Good. About time.
 
ClearedForOption said:
I don't want to see good pilots career's get hurt because people without integrity have figured out a loophole in a records recording system.
Click to expand...

As a systems engineer for thirty years, I would not even call it a "loophole". Just a built in design failure.

Lazy work by people who don't care about their system's bad design choices. Convenience and deployment expediency over accuracy.

"It works 99% of the time and blows up destroying the user 1% of the time. Ship it!"

Completely normal and accepted computer system engineering behavior these days. All sorts of lame excuses for it, too.

Good luck finding a public data flow diagram or public third party audit of the system...

Of course even in the audited world, there's fun stuff like...

"Does your HR dept do X, please show documented policy and an example from a random sampling of hires..."

"We don't have an HR dept. Accounting has two people."

"Ok do they do X?"

"Hell if I know. Want to call her?"

Lol. Livin' the audited data security dream here... Been there done that, got the t-shirt. And these folks are exempt from public audits.
 
mshunter said:
You miss the point....completely.

Disciplinary actions unrelated to flying are between the previous employer and employee.

Edit: Most states have laws against that kind of information.

"Is the employee eligible for rehire" is all they're allowed to ask.
Click to expand...

Never been disciplined. If I worked at a place where I felt they were unfairly disciplining me, I wouldn’t work there long.


Every airline should see discipline records, training failures, busts, etc. And unfortunately, as Colgan and Atlas showed, there are always those pilots who suck and hide their backgrounds. And then crash planes killing people.
 
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