ExpressJet 2Q Loss Widens, Plans Big Capacity Cut

[Clocks]

So you are saying the pilots should finance bad mistakes by management and ineptitude of middle management?

I know a guy at XJT who was dead headed from CLE to EWR on Friday night to rest in base then they wanted to deadhead him from EWR to CLE Saturday morning to fly from CLE. It would have been cheaper because of deadhead pay to get him a hotel room in CLE Friday night. The pilot, who is a smarty, told them this, and they ignored him.

The inefficiencies are so ridiculous right now.

Last week I'm going RDU (I think) to EWR, and my captain is going to DH back to IAH. The other coex xjt plane is leaving 5 minutes later to IAH, and the CA is DH'ing back to EWR. That's ~6 hours of captain pay totally wasted, hundreds of dollars, roughly 1/4 my monthly salary in just one small example (luckily one of the CAs was adamant about calling CS and got them flipped). And for the last month I haven't flown a trip without a DH at the end. I'm convinced scheduling is doing it on purpose because it's essentially forcing you to sit reserve at the other base. If I get into EWR at 9am and my DH leaves at 11:15, all CS has to do is cancel my DH and wait for me to call (and sit on hold for 40 min+) to cover the crazy understaffing problem going on. There's a reason sick calls are through the roof, if I wasn't on probation I'd use every minute of it before october 1st.

 

[SmitteyB]

There are just too many outside pressures at work here. I personally look and see how my QOL has decreased recently due to the arrival of the Q400 in Newark. I don't blame CAL for flying them, it seems like a good plane. But the fact that I lose QOL and pay and am essentially replaced by a lower paid/compensated pilot who essentially does more work (flying 74 people around) is the sad truth of the situation. I know guys like Seggy here are working to improve things there, but evidently looking at the past vote, many pilots are happy with how things are. How much simpler can it be? Group A (better compensated) group loses flying to group B (lower compensation). Group A faces pressure to bring their pay down "or else." If that isn't lowering the bar than I don't know what is.

I know I use colgan as an example but really any regional could be in that position. PNCL pilots do your job for less....SKYW flies 80 seat planes for what you're getting!

Yeah...I'm depressed about looming negotiations.

That is exactly how CAL mainline pilots feel about ExpressJet.

 

[SmitteyB]

It will be less than that. Approx 250 is what the MEC was forecasting last week.

I am glad to see all the people that are recognizing that with Colgan and CHQ doing XJT's job for less (through pay AND work rules, and creating more revenue for CAL with more seats but not getting your share of it) we are tearing this profession apart.

Is this ALPA vs. Teamsters? This is getting sad because CHQ is Teamsters and Colgan is trying to get teamsters in as well. One union undercutting another.

The most ridiculous post on Jetcareers, ever.

 

[jtrain609]

That is exactly how CAL mainline pilots feel about ExpressJet.

Not so fast.

It's how the CAL mainline group USED to feel about us.

Then CHQ came on the scene and they said, "Uhh....well....those ExpressJet guys weren't so bad I guess..."

Then Colgan came on the scene and they said, "JESUS CHRIST GIVE US EXPRESSJET BACK! WE WERE WRONG!"

 

[Clocks]

That is exactly how CAL mainline pilots feel about ExpressJet.

Didn't the mainline guys essentially create the regionals? They can "feel" however they want, it's their own bleeping fault.

 

[derg]

Didn't the mainline guys essentially create the regionals?

No.

I'm going to have to talk to the good people at Snopes because I also heard this week that ALPA pressured Bombardier to make the CRJ underperform...

 

[Seggy]

Then Colgan came on the scene and they said, "JESUS CHRIST GIVE US EXPRESSJET BACK! WE WERE WRONG!"

Not so fast part 2

They do love us because we offer 24 more seats for commuters (25 with the cockpit jumpseat) and we are never weight restricted because we have a lot beta action going on.

So it is more of a double edged sword.

 

[Clocks]

No.

I'm going to have to talk to the good people at Snopes because I also heard this week that ALPA pressured Bombardier to make the CRJ underperform...

I thought I remembered something about CAL refusing to take the rjs on. 90's union politics is probably the weakest part of my airline knowledge though.

 

[SmitteyB]

Maintaining fairness-

XJT is a great company with a great contract and a great group of pilots. That is noted.

Colgan has a lot of potential. And I know that some of our pilots decided to not for representation last year, but it will be different this year. We are committed to making it better, so just give us about a year to try an negotiate. These (as everyone knows) are terrible times to negotiate better wages.

Now here's what I'm concerned about...

What if Colgan does vote in Teamsters (god forbid)? Will we then be scum because we are not ALPA? First we were crap because of no union, now we get one (hypothetically IBT) and are we still crap? I'm guessing yes. Most of you will just keep finding ways to call Colgan and their Pilots undercutters and scabs. It's too bad if it works out that way too.

 

[Clocks]

Maintaining fairness-

XJT is a great company with a great contract and a great group of pilots. That is noted.

Colgan has a lot of potential. And I know that some of our pilots decided to not for representation last year, but it will be different this year. We are committed to making it better, so just give us about a year to try an negotiate. These (as everyone knows) are terrible times to negotiate better wages.

Now here's what I'm concerned about...

What if Colgan does vote in Teamsters (god forbid)? Will we then be scum because we are not ALPA? First we were crap because of no union, now we get one (hypothetically IBT) and are we still crap? I'm guessing yes. Most of you will just keep finding ways to call Colgan and their Pilots undercutters and scabs. It's too bad if it works out that way too.

They'll probably think the same thing you would if (more likely when) a company undercuts your CA payscale by 15% (in other words, $47/hour for a 2nd year CA) and your FO payscale by 25% (2nd year FO $19/hour). If a company paid as far under colgan's payscale as colgan is under xjet, those would be the hourly rates (using Q400 numbers).

So how would you feel if xjet voted those changes and CAL terminated it's contract with colgan and returned the flying to xjet? Some will probably be happy, some wont care, some will think it's stupid.

 

[jtrain609]

Not so fast part 2

They do love us because we offer 24 more seats for commuters (25 with the cockpit jumpseat) and we are never weight restricted because we have a lot beta action going on.

So it is more of a double edged sword.

Some folks love you guys, but FA's can't stand the Q because of the lack of an FA jump seat. That thing gets full and it's all over.

From the guys I talk with in my pad, they can't stand the Q.

 

[Seggy]

From the guys I talk with in my pad, they can't stand the Q.

It should be flown by mainline pilots. I hate it as well for that matter.

 

[Gonzo]

It should be flown by mainline pilots. I hate it as well for that matter.

Then why fly it?
Why not the Saab.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I also heard this week that ALPA pressured Bombardier to make the CRJ underperform...

That's nothing. If you listen to the geniuses on that "other" pilot message board, ALPA is also responsible for global warming, child rape, and the Kennedy assassination. Oh, and that Russian invasion of Georgia? Yep, ALPA's fault, too.

Then why fly it?
Why not the Saab.

What is to be gained by Seggy refusing to bid the airplane? Someone junior to him that is paid less will get the bid instead. I've never understood why pilots think they are doing any good by refusing to bid a specific airframe. Your refusal to bid it will not make it go away.

 

[Seggy]

Then why fly it?
Why not the Saab.

Understand I am a little buzzed here in this response, so I am not being poltically correct in my response.

After being molested for the last three years at Colgan flying the Beech which was the Bastard child of the fleet, I needed a change. I was burnt out flying it because of the crap I had to deal with. From November to April I did not have ONE day go as scheduled, not ONE. I am a roll with the punches type of guy, don't let crap get to me, but do you know how hard it is to deal with this crap? I learned a lot but imagine it like you showing up for a day trip at Eagle that you are suppose to do a ORD to XNA turn and you get sent to Siberia for a twelve day trip with 24 hours overnight in a hotel to get your time off.

It was bad.

After going through this, I had no desire to go to the Slaab because those guys are about to get molested like we did on the Beech. I was burnt out of being on the red headed step child at a company and needed a change. To me the Q is simply more days off and more pay. Yes the pay does suck but it is still more money than it is on the Slaab. Finally, I won't have to worry about being seat locked, furloughed etc.

Does that explain things a little better? I don't care what I am flying. As far as I am concerned it is a way to get more experience under my belt. I have learned a lot about the Q, dealing with a FMS, new airplane, etc. I could care less what I fly, I just want to work to get paid properly, raise the bar, and have a safe, rewarding career.

 

[Gonzo]

Understand I am a little buzzed here in this response, so I am not being poltically correct in my response.

After being molested for the last three years at Colgan flying the Beech which was the Bastard child of the fleet, I needed a change. I was burnt out flying it because of the crap I had to deal with. From November to April I did not have ONE day go as scheduled, not ONE. I am a roll with the punches type of guy, don't let crap get to me, but do you know how hard it is to deal with this crap? I learned a lot but imagine it like you showing up for a day trip at Eagle that you are suppose to do a ORD to XNA turn and you get sent to Kabul, Afghanistan for a twelve day trip with 24 hours overnight in a hotel to get your time off.

It was bad.

After going through this, I had no desire to go to the Slaab because those guys are about to get molested like we did on the Beech. I was burnt out of being on the red headed step child at a company and needed a change. To me the Q is simply more days off and more pay. Yes the pay does suck but it is still more money than it is on the Slaab. Finally, I won't have to worry about being seat locked, furloughed etc.

Does that explain things a little better? I don't care what I am flying. As far as I am concerned it is a way to get more experience under my belt. I have learned a lot about the Q, dealing with a FMS, new airplane, etc. I could care less what I fly, I just want to work to get paid properly, raise the bar, and have a safe, rewarding career.

Thx, Mark that was a great response. Keep the bold part in mind when you are working on a contact. Colgan pilots need ALPA, and they need people like you on the MEC.

PS- Will you guys upgrade greaper007.

 

[Seggy]

PS- Will you guys upgrade greaper007.

He should have been upgraded long ago...

 

[WestIndian425]

Not so fast.

It's how the CAL mainline group USED to feel about us.

Then CHQ came on the scene and they said, "Uhh....well....those ExpressJet guys weren't so bad I guess..."

Then Colgan came on the scene and they said, "JESUS CHRIST GIVE US EXPRESSJET BACK! WE WERE WRONG!"

:yup::yup::yup:

Some folks love you guys, but FA's can't stand the Q because of the lack of an FA jump seat. That thing gets full and it's all over.

From the guys I talk with in my pad, they can't stand the Q.

I've heard that as well.

 

[Cav]

Good Lord people...mainline v. regional, regional v. regional...you're all missing the point entirely. This thread is worse than a Jerry Springer marathon. Perhaps some of you should refocus your efforts on fighting battles that will actual benefit the profession.

 

[nwa757]

The most ridiculous post on Jetcareers, ever.

Care to back up your response? Can you tell us why it's not ridiculous that some Continental Express/Connection pilots are undercutting XJT by getting paid less to create more revenue for Continental?