ExpressJet 2Q Loss Widens, Plans Big Capacity Cut

[Nick]

I agree

It defines business!

We're all going through it...

Yes, I know. I agree with you. It's competition.

I do also think that it is a good example of lowering standards though. If an airline that has less perks for its employees undercuts an airline that has more perks and pay for its employees, you can see what direction that makes things go.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I doubt CAL wants XJT to fold but if XJT can't get the neccessary concessions and cost re-structuring under control, they wont be able to stay in business.

And what concessions exactly do you think are "necessary?"

 

[surreal1221]

Less money duh Todd!!

Those pilots make too much money for the little amount of responsibility they have - especially those gear monkey FO's!1

:whatever:

I'm just happy I'm healthy enough to walk straight.

 

[meritflyer]

And what concessions exactly do you think are "necessary?"

I, don't have any first hand knowledge of XJT's books however Jim Ream, a good friend of XJT labor, spelled such conditions out at his road show. They're needing to trim costs from the top executives, mid-level management, and the pilots (5%).

Something to the tune of $35M in annual savings I believe.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I, don't have any first hand knowledge of XJT's books however Jim Ream, a good friend of XJT labor, spelled such conditions out at his road show. They're needing to trim costs from the top executives, mid-level management, and the pilots (5%).

Something to the tune of $35M in annual savings I believe.

The pilots shouldn't give up a dime. With copilots barely getting by as it stands already, the whole idea is absurd.

 

[meritflyer]

The pilots shouldn't give up a dime. With copilots barely getting by as it stands already, the whole idea is absurd.

I won't disagree with you one bit there.

However, with XJT now being paid 'market rates' by Continental (which is significantly less than the prior deal), they'll seek to pay their pilots 'market rates' for 50 seaters.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I won't disagree with you one bit there.

However, with XJT now being paid 'market rates' by Continental (which is significantly less than the prior deal), they'll seek to pay their pilots 'market rates' for 50 seaters.

Oh, I have no doubt that that's what they'll "seek." The pilots should tell them to pound sand, though. I'm sure that wonderful management team can scrape together $35 million a year some other way without bankrupting their pilots.

 

[surreal1221]

Or the other work groups for that matter.

 

[meritflyer]

Oh, I have no doubt that that's what they'll "seek." The pilots should tell them to pound sand, though. I'm sure that wonderful management team can scrape together $35 million a year some other way without bankrupting their pilots.

The union said last year at a meeting, the company had been very good to the pilot group and it may be time to give something back. I was there and heard it with my own ears.

Do they have a point? I don't know. I don't fly for them anymore so I'll let their pilot group decide that. I do know at the time, many people at my base bought into the whole idea.

I was a little shocked to hear that Ream told the LAX crowd, it's these savings (pilot's included) [for the company] or bust. Candidily, that's the last thing out of that guys mouth I'd expect to hear.

 

[jtrain609]

They'll get their cuts. You know how?

They're about to chop off 400-500 pilots, and they're going to say, "Listen guys, we don't want to do this, you don't want to do this, but we can either take another 100-200 of you and put you on the street, or you can give us 5%. It's your choice, but it's going to happen one way or another."

There are ways to give back the 5% without making it hurt the pilots, though. We can save jobs and keep our pay rates/work rules intact with some of the things the union is working on.

Have some faith in them to do their job, they're pretty good at it.

 

[surreal1221]

Have some faith in them to do their job, they're pretty good at it.

I have the faith JT. . .I have it.

 

[fly8slep]

Re: Flame Away . . . at Reality

Its simple economics. They fly 74 for less than you fly 50. And jets don't have that much advantage in the East Coast markets.

How much more fuel do you burn? The Q400 is where regional flying is going.

I don't think Baronman even cares if he gets flamed for that post.

Every single thing he wrote was true.

SkyWest, for example, offered a lower rate to Continental Airlines and forced ExpressJet to go with a lower rate, or face losing the flying altogether. That defines lowering the bar.

That of course is just an example; this happens constantly in the regional airlines because that is the disaster that they are. They really all need to just go away, 'good' regionals and 'bad', but that is not going to happen in the short term.

Oh the hypocracy, no-one cares about Skywest because everyone wants to go there or Colgan because they are the only place that are hiring, no one likes to point fingers at them. BLAME Gojet!!!!!!!!! Good luck to XJet it's one of the better regional out there, unfortunately with all the predatory undercutting of some airlines out there..... like flying 75 people for 50 seat pay, it's going to be an uphill battle.

 

[jtrain609]

Re: Flame Away . . . at Reality

You mean like what GoJets has done?

Somebody send this to the lav.

 

[WestIndian425]

Re: Flame Away . . . at Reality

I for one am interested to see how the system bid turns out.

 

[jtrain609]

Re: Flame Away . . . at Reality

I for one am interested to see how the system bid turns out.

Wednesday's D-day! I'm curious to see how far up the list it goes. My personal guess is between 400-500.

Anybody wanna put a Whataburger down on that bet?

 

[nwa757]

It will be less than that. Approx 250 is what the MEC was forecasting last week.

I am glad to see all the people that are recognizing that with Colgan and CHQ doing XJT's job for less (through pay AND work rules, and creating more revenue for CAL with more seats but not getting your share of it) we are tearing this profession apart.

Is this ALPA vs. Teamsters? This is getting sad because CHQ is Teamsters and Colgan is trying to get teamsters in as well. One union undercutting another.

 

[IrishSheepdog]

Re: Flame Away . . . at Reality

I'll tell you, I am one of the biggest kool-aid drinking company men we have at XJT, but I plan on turning down any concessionary agreement. After flying on the branded operation, and seeing just how much money we have pissed away needlessly, I have no desire to cut my pay. There have been hundreds of ways that we could have saved money at XJT, but every opportunity was passed by. Scheduling, training, purchasing, etc... All ways we could have avoided this.

I do have faith in our management team still, but they really need to get their act together. Yes, Jim Ream is taking a 10 percent pay cut on his $800K salary, and it's the thought that counts. But at the same time we have a very inefficient operation here... It has gotten better, but it's still not great. When the company makes a concentrated effort to REALLY cost cut and be efficient (particularly with scheduling crews), then we'll talk. Until then, I just see management taking the easy way out.

This pilot group has given a LOT over the past year or so, trying to keep this company viable. Personally, I feel like I've done everything in my power to go above and beyond for our company to keep this company strong. We've worked hard, and now are being asked for much more, without really making efforts where it counts.

I'll be voting no. Yes, I realize the implications of that vote. However management cannot sign agreements with the expectations that their labor groups will just automatically give up money and QOL provisions to keep our jobs.

I keep telling the guys who will be furloughed, "I don't want to see you on the street, but I'd hate it even more to leave you a crappy contract to return to."

 

[IrishSheepdog]

One more thing: Did you really expect Jim Ream to say anything else about our viability without concessions? Think about it... If he came out and said, "We'd like concessions from our labor groups, but even without them we should manage to gain a small profit in the fourth quarter of 2008," would any of us give up a dime? Of course not. There is a reason they would like this to be accomplished quickly.

The Continental CPA stipulates that we as a company need to shed 5 percent of our costs. Yet we need a 6 percent pay cut? No...

 

[Maurus]

Will there even be any first year FOs at XJT? Especially after the furloughs I doubt there will be. A pay cut right now wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as it could be. Also wouldn't a lot of the two year guys also be hit by the furlough? I don't think a 5% paycut will cause the pilots to go into bankrupcy at this point. Now a company that folds will probably cause a lot of bankrupcy problems with pilots.

 

[Seggy]

So you are saying the pilots should finance bad mistakes by management and ineptitude of middle management?

I know a guy at XJT who was dead headed from CLE to EWR on Friday night to rest in base then they wanted to deadhead him from EWR to CLE Saturday morning to fly from CLE. It would have been cheaper because of deadhead pay to get him a hotel room in CLE Friday night. The pilot, who is a smarty, told them this, and they ignored him.