Endeavor's next big announcement

Has there actually been an "announcement about an announcement??" Seems like the rumor over an announcement could just be the rumor itself.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Since you were correct with your year, I would answer I still dont regret the yes vote, if it had been a 2-3 year wind down I might have felt better about voting no. But if it was a one year wind down Id be in a tough way trying to find something comparable with 2500 or so pilots all getting aggressive on job search in that economy.

I feel a lot better now, with everyone (minus staffing for the 81 900s) finding something good to go to next in the year. Winding us down now with the current park schedule (and accelerating) leave us a good chance for everyone needing out to get out.
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The stated timeframe was a year but realistically speaking it would have taken Delta longer to replace it all. Remember, Delta stated they had airlines "picked out" to replace the 9E flying but what everyone conveniently forgot to answer is how these airlines would find the pilot staffing to do so. All regionals today are hurting to find pilots with the new ATP and 1500 hr rule, plus the fact no one really wants to line up for these jobs with a high entry requirement with low pay. Regardless, your problem exists whether or not the vote was yes or no. Many have stated voting yes was simply buying time for a new job that could take at least a year to obtain. So how is it any different in a yes versus no vote? Regardless of the yes vote, everyone is trying to get out. So that situation didn't really change. The only thing you could argue is the advantage of the SSP but the hiring numbers from that have been far lower than imagined. So since the start of the mentioned 1 year timeframe, everyone has been trying to get out anyway and the problem you wanted to avoid is something you can't avoid ever since Apr 1, 2012.

The one thing you do have going for you though is that quite a few CAs do see themselves holding out for a legacy and will not apply to a LCC. There is one member here who has largely stated he will not apply to VX and this was even with him getting downgraded from CA to FO as a late 2006 DOH. As an another example, one of my last trips in Feb '12 was with a CA (a very nice guy) new checkairman who did say congrats on my escaping and when I asked him what his plans were or if he had apps out to Virgin or Spirit (the only two hiring at that time), his response was "I did not spend 8 years here and become a checkairman to end up at a place like Spirit or Virgin." That is basically a word-for-word quote. So as long as you still have guys who think like that, you will have lower competition going to the LCCs.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The stated timeframe was a year but realistically speaking it would have taken Delta longer to replace it all. Remember, Delta stated they had airlines "picked out" to replace the 9E flying but what everyone conveniently forgot to answer is how these airlines would find the pilot staffing to do so. All regionals today are hurting to find pilots with the new ATP and 1500 hr rule, plus the fact no one really wants to line up for these jobs with a high entry requirement with low pay. Regardless, your problem exists whether or not the vote was yes or no. Many have stated voting yes was simply buying time for a new job that could take at least a year to obtain. So how is it any different in a yes versus no vote? Regardless of the yes vote, everyone is trying to get out. So that situation didn't really change. The only thing you could argue is the advantage of the SSP but the hiring numbers from that have been far lower than imagined. So since the start of the mentioned 1 year timeframe, everyone has been trying to get out anyway and the problem you wanted to avoid is something you can't avoid ever since Apr 1, 2012.

The one thing you do have going for you though is that quite a few CAs do see themselves holding out for a legacy and will not apply to a LCC. There is one member here who has largely stated he will not apply to VX and this was even with him getting downgraded from CA to FO as a late 2006 DOH. As an another example, one of my last trips in Feb '12 was with a CA (a very nice guy) new checkairman who did say congrats on my escaping and when I asked him what his plans were or if he had apps out to Virgin or Spirit (the only two hiring at that time), his response was "I did not spend 8 years here and become a checkairman to end up at a place like Spirit or Virgin." That is basically a word-for-word quote. So as long as you still have guys who think like that, you will have lower competition going to the LCCs.
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I'm not interested in VX. Not saying other LCC's are bad, but it's not my cup of tea. You can't base someone's opinions because they don't think YOUR carrier fits what I want in a career path. You knock endeavor, your former employer of pinnacle, so you are throwing stones in a glass house. You got out and seem to be happy, good for you, but you can't speak from the high heavens down to everyone else because they may simply not agree with your viewpoint.

Yea, I'm that 2006 guy you mention...for the rest of the class.
 
higney85 said:
I'm not interested in VX. Not saying other LCC's are bad, but it's not my cup of tea. You can't base someone's opinions because they don't think YOUR carrier fits what I want in a career path. You knock endeavor, your former employer of pinnacle, so you are throwing stones in a glass house. You got out and seem to be happy, good for you, but you can't speak from the high heavens down to everyone else because they may simply not agree with your viewpoint.

Yea, I'm that 2006 guy you mention...for the rest of the class.
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I know. Heck I flew with one CA who said Delta mainline wouldn't be his cup of tea (exact words). How he can fly Delta Connection with Delta passengers is okay but Delta mainline would not be, I have no idea. The point was that there are several CAs who are not going to be applying to LCCs. On the flip side of the coin, I don't think you'll find any FOs being picky about not going to LCCs. That was the only point, and I mentioned in that sense, he has an advantage.

Also, I'm not in high heavens. That is reserved only for the top three Delta/United/American.

Edit: The rumot I heard is you were sticking around for the 1000 TPIC for the fatherly help to Fedex. Nothing wrong with that either.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I know. Heck I flew with one CA who said Delta mainline wouldn't be his cup of tea (exact words). How he can fly Delta Connection with Delta passengers is okay but Delta mainline would not be, I have no idea. The point was that there are several CAs who are not going to be applying to LCCs. On the flip side of the coin, I don't think you'll find any FOs being picky about not going to LCCs. That was the only point, and I mentioned in that sense, he has an advantage.

Also, I'm not in high heavens. That is reserved only for the top three Delta/United/American.

Edit: The rumot I heard is you were sticking around for the 1000 TPIC for the fatherly help to Fedex. Nothing wrong with that either.
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Check your rumors buddy. I'm pretty sure he has applications out at other places.
 
Here is a good laugh for you guys. The latest rumor on EL is this:
I heard this was what Cujo was working on; which is where the rumors came from about him applying at Delta, when he's said repeatedly he had not applied. I heard he was working a deal with Delta back when they were threatening to Comair us, to offer transfer to our pilots with longevity and seniority to PCL. Wiping out AA feed in the process, helping Delta hurt AA.
I heard it got as high as this guy ----> http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=18&item=88
Read his bio. VP of HR for Delta; he worked for the same law firm as..... Jerry Glass. That's how AAG and Glass found out our union was working to whipsaw them, by threatening to have a mass exodus to Endeavor.
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This is a long one folks, buckle up.
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The stated timeframe was a year but realistically speaking it would have taken Delta longer to replace it all. Remember, Delta stated they had airlines "picked out" to replace the 9E flying but what everyone conveniently forgot to answer is how these airlines would find the pilot staffing to do so.
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If only there were 2500 pilots out of work from Pinnacle to fly them at the next regional.
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
All regionals today are hurting to find pilots with the new ATP and 1500 hr rule, plus the fact no one really wants to line up for these jobs with a high entry requirement with low pay.
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Thank God that only happened this January, not when we would have all our aircraft parked already and already have been on unemployment or regional or the lucky ones on somewhere else.

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Regardless, your problem exists whether or not the vote was yes or no.
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The problem exists but it's a different problem when you have a job whilel looking for another one (even a year down the line).
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Many have stated voting yes was simply buying time for a new job that could take at least a year to obtain. So how is it any different in a yes versus no vote?
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Hu? 2500 guys having a job looking for the next one, when the airlines could absorb how many realistically? While they parked our airplanes more than half of our pilots would start over on first year pay at a regional, so that's awesome.
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Regardless of the yes vote, everyone is trying to get out.
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Right but they aren't unemployed looking for a job right now, or restarted at first year pay reserve at a new regional
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
So that situation didn't really change.
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as stated above, wrong.
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The only thing you could argue is the advantage of the SSP but the hiring numbers from that have been far lower than imagined.
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Nope, lots of other arguments, see above. Also, yes the SSP isn't working very well, so I agree with that
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
So since the start of the mentioned 1 year timeframe, everyone has been trying to get out anyway and the problem you wanted to avoid is something you can't avoid ever since Apr 1, 2012.
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The problem isn't a problem when I'm still at fourth year pay, with a line, sticking more and more money in savings, taking vacations, life goes on and for a wihle with comfort vs restarting my life at whatever regional took me. Anyway, hopefully you are able to see all that.
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The one thing you do have going for you though is that quite a few CAs do see themselves holding out for a legacy and will not apply to a LCC. There is one member here who has largely stated he will not apply to VX and this was even with him getting downgraded from CA to FO as a late 2006 DOH. As an another example, one of my last trips in Feb '12 was with a CA (a very nice guy) new checkairman who did say congrats on my escaping and when I asked him what his plans were or if he had apps out to Virgin or Spirit (the only two hiring at that time), his response was "I did not spend 8 years here and become a checkairman to end up at a place like Spirit or Virgin." That is basically a word-for-word quote. So as long as you still have guys who think like that, you will have lower competition going to the LCCs.
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I guess. I don't know what looking down on those guys does for, you but they might turn out to be right too. Or do you have the crystal ball?
 
FYI, I flew DCI passengers, and I had no desire to go to mainline either. As Higney said, other people's career aspirations aren't the same. I can totally see it. I had no desire to go to Northwest back in those days, either.

Pinnacle was a means to an end, and it wasn't a legacy. My first target was SWA, then the bullseye shifted. I'm one of the lucky guys who actually wound up at his #1 choice. Pinnacle may have sucked rancid raccoon ass while I was there, but it built my resume and netted me the connections I needed for my current gig. That kinda makes all the horrible days and frustrating, phone slamming (or as much as you CAN slam a cel phone) calls with scheduling worth it in the end.

Heard through the grapevine tonight there's more JFK and LGA flying at the expense of DTW and MSP. Never thought I would see "DTW" and "shrinking" in the same sentence. MEM, ATL and even MSP? Sure. Some people have got to be tired of the displacement shuffle.
 
You can totally say ass on here.

Dtw will probably always have a base but we've got 160ish airplanes going down to 81, everything is going to shrink that isn't a strict 900 base. Of course once we get to 1000 pilots and still can't hire then we'll park more. We could confortably be a 600 pilot group I think.
 
The problem with Dtw is that it is overwhelmingly the largest 200 base and the smallest 900 base. What a shame it is going to be to see it shrink but it's enevitable. They are currently not backfilling any 900 ca slots in Dtw when they are vacated. I'm just wondering how many captain slots on the 200 there will be by the end of the year. Shame too becuase it has the best facilities and best airport setup out of any base left .
 
If only there were 2500 pilots out of work from Pinnacle to fly them at the next regional.
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I doubt you'd find many willing to start at the bottom all over again. I'v even heard many are just outright leaving Part 121 than start over at some regional outfit all over again. You can't blame em for just walking.
Right but they aren't unemployed looking for a job right now, or restarted at first year pay reserve at a new regional
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Nothing would have changed for the time being. Delta can not just cut 190+ airplanes, even in one year. It took the better part of a decade to slowly dismantle Comair. Even with effort there was just too much lift to pull in just one year.
The problem isn't a problem when I'm still at fourth year pay, with a line, sticking more and more money in savings, taking vacations, life goes on
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^
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The battered wife syndrome defense.

I'm just glad to see Eagle guys who were told the exact same thing as 9E was told yet they had the guts to vote no in superior numbers. Sometimes you gotta call the bluff and then see the real cards. True, Eagle wasn't BK like 9E was but the end threat of shut down was the same. Most comments prevalent were not "we are in BK and will have court imposed cuts" but rather "if we don't vote yes, Delta will shut us down."

I'm not sure if the Republic vote is done yet, but I thought there was also another regional pilot group that voted no to management threats and concessions. There aren't enough pilots available to regional airlines. They are in desperate hiring mode. When the supply side is lacking, the demand increase, the ball is in the court of regional pilot groups.
 
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