Endeavor flight gone awry

Did I read correctly that they waited 4 hours to take off? There may be some money involved in the form of fines if that's the case...
 
It boggles my mind that they had to obtain permission to help. I'd have gladly submitted myself for the dang grievance.
 
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ClarkGriswold said:
Did I read correctly that they waited 4 hours to take off? There may be some money involved in the form of fines if that's the case...
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I think what the article probably meant was they were DELAYED four hours, not that they were on a taxiway for four hours. Sometimes these news places forget what words mean.

Also, they seem to think Delta is being shady because the flight landed at 2:30 and Delta is saying it got there at 3:30. News outlets don't know the difference between On and In times, which is not surprising.

Kudos to the Pittsburgh airport for being pro active on that. Could have been another Rochester, MN episode. Although with the Endeavor people not caring as much anymore, the pilots probably woulda shut the thing down, opened the door and walked to the curb hoping someone would arrest them on the way.

I can't tell you the number of times there was a disconnect between Delta and PinnDeavor dispatch when I was there. Normally went like this:

Me: We're canceled.
Dispatch: We're still showing you as going. Don't go anywhere.
Me: I'm staring at the board that says canceled, and the gate agents are re-booking people. Pretty sure we're canceled.
Dispatch: Just hang out for a bit. Our system still shows you as scheduled.
Me: Ooooookay.

<two hours later>

ACARS: You're canceled.
Me: Hey, scheduling. We're canceled. Which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: No, we're still showing you going to DTW and then YYZ.
Me: No, we were canceled two hours ago. It took that long for it show in dispatch's system. Now, they're saying we're canceled.
Scheduling: Well, we're still showing you as not canceled, so we can't work on a hotel until you're canceled.
Me: <facepalm> Fine.

<45 minutes later>

Scheduling: Hey, Captain. Just wanted to get you notified of some schedule changes.
Me: We're canceled, right?
Scheduling: Hold on.......(bad blues music on hold)......uhhhhhh, yeah.
Me: Okay, which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: We're still working on that.
Me: <double facepalm> Okay. You can start our rest when we get to the hotel.
Scheduling: (looooong pause) But.....you're canceled. You're in rest as of.........30 minutes ago.
Me: (maniacal laughter) Really? 'Cause I'm just NOW being notified of this, and we have no place to go. You can't release us to sleep in the airport. I'll hold while you get us a hotel, and then I'll call you when we get there to start our rest.
Scheduling: Okay.

<30 minutes later>

Scheduling: You're going to the <insert roadside bed bug infested inn> and your show time is <8 hours from whatever time it was an hour ago>
Me: Okay, we're heading to the hotel. I'll call you when we get there and you can adjust the show time to 8 hours from then.
Scheduling: No, your show time is <insert their godawful early original time>
Me: We'll discuss this when I get to the hotel.

<60 minutes and a cab ride later>

Hotel clerk: We're still waiting on the fax to come in, so we can't give you keys yet.
Me: Yeah, I figured.

<30 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax still isn't here yet.

<15 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax finally came through, here are your rooms.

Me:Hey, scheduling. We finally got our rooms. Our show time is <insert now + 8 hours>
Scheduling: Uhhhh, no. Your show time is <insert original time>
Me: Nope. We'll be there in eight hours. Goodnight.

<Repeat above about every 2-3 weeks>

Never heard a WORD from a chief pilot about any of that. Probably because they knew I had the FAA FSDO on speed dial and wouldn't hesitate to use it. Scheduling threatened me once by saying I couldn't call in fatigued. I told them I'd call the FAA to double check, but I'm pretty sure my company can't tell me I can't call in fatigued. They changed their turn pretty quickly then. Just sucks that you used to have to go through all that just to get 6 hours of sleep after a meltdown in JFK or DTW.
 
We had a crew fly from DCA to CAE once with a flight that was "canceled" after they left the ground. Of course nobody told the crew so when they got to Columbia nobody was there to meet the plane. It turned in to a big mess where the company initially went after the crew for "stealing" an airplane. After the feds got involved and threatened to fine the airline for losing operational control of a flight, the crew no longer was the subject of any investigation.
 
BobDDuck said:
We had a crew fly from DCA to CAE once with a flight that was "canceled" after they left the ground. Of course nobody told the crew so when they got to Columbia nobody was there to meet the plane. It turned in to a big mess where the company initially went after the crew for "stealing" an airplane. After the feds got involved and threatened to fine the airline for losing operational control of a flight, the crew no longer was the subject of any investigation.
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Yeah, because the crew wanted to go to Columbia at all costs... Geez.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Yeah, because the crew wanted to go to Columbia at all costs... Geez.
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It was a prequel.

ESCAPE-FROM-NY_612x612.jpg
 
The best comment on the article: "Delta managers should be charged with kidnapping and false imprisonment.
And WHY didn't the pilot call 911?"
 
Hell, call the station manager at home.

We had such amazingly obscene pick up times in IAH where we'd arrive at the airport 30 minutes before even the screeners were there and standing around in the terminal, outside of security and we called the duty pilot. He gave us the station manager's number, I called him at like 0430, woke him up and the problem got fixed.
 
Derg said:
Hell, call the station manager at home.

We had such amazingly obscene pick up times in IAH where we'd arrive at the airport 30 minutes before even the screeners were there and standing around in the terminal, outside of security and we called the duty pilot. He gave us the station manager's number, I called him at like 0430, woke him up and the problem got fixed.
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0425 "Hello we are checking in as scheduled outside the security checkpoint. The TSA won't show up for another hour, so I have nothing better to do than make your phone ring every 5 minutes till they do."
 
kellwolf said:
I think what the article probably meant was they were DELAYED four hours, not that they were on a taxiway for four hours. Sometimes these news places forget what words mean.

Also, they seem to think Delta is being shady because the flight landed at 2:30 and Delta is saying it got there at 3:30. News outlets don't know the difference between On and In times, which is not surprising.

Kudos to the Pittsburgh airport for being pro active on that. Could have been another Rochester, MN episode. Although with the Endeavor people not caring as much anymore, the pilots probably woulda shut the thing down, opened the door and walked to the curb hoping someone would arrest them on the way.

I can't tell you the number of times there was a disconnect between Delta and PinnDeavor dispatch when I was there. Normally went like this:

Me: We're canceled.
Dispatch: We're still showing you as going. Don't go anywhere.
Me: I'm staring at the board that says canceled, and the gate agents are re-booking people. Pretty sure we're canceled.
Dispatch: Just hang out for a bit. Our system still shows you as scheduled.
Me: Ooooookay.

<two hours later>

ACARS: You're canceled.
Me: Hey, scheduling. We're canceled. Which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: No, we're still showing you going to DTW and then YYZ.
Me: No, we were canceled two hours ago. It took that long for it show in dispatch's system. Now, they're saying we're canceled.
Scheduling: Well, we're still showing you as not canceled, so we can't work on a hotel until you're canceled.
Me: <facepalm> Fine.

<45 minutes later>

Scheduling: Hey, Captain. Just wanted to get you notified of some schedule changes.
Me: We're canceled, right?
Scheduling: Hold on.......(bad blues music on hold)......uhhhhhh, yeah.
Me: Okay, which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: We're still working on that.
Me: <double facepalm> Okay. You can start our rest when we get to the hotel.
Scheduling: (looooong pause) But.....you're canceled. You're in rest as of.........30 minutes ago.
Me: (maniacal laughter) Really? 'Cause I'm just NOW being notified of this, and we have no place to go. You can't release us to sleep in the airport. I'll hold while you get us a hotel, and then I'll call you when we get there to start our rest.
Scheduling: Okay.

<30 minutes later>

Scheduling: You're going to the <insert roadside bed bug infested inn> and your show time is <8 hours from whatever time it was an hour ago>
Me: Okay, we're heading to the hotel. I'll call you when we get there and you can adjust the show time to 8 hours from then.
Scheduling: No, your show time is <insert their godawful early original time>
Me: We'll discuss this when I get to the hotel.

<60 minutes and a cab ride later>

Hotel clerk: We're still waiting on the fax to come in, so we can't give you keys yet.
Me: Yeah, I figured.

<30 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax still isn't here yet.

<15 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax finally came through, here are your rooms.

Me:Hey, scheduling. We finally got our rooms. Our show time is <insert now + 8 hours>
Scheduling: Uhhhh, no. Your show time is <insert original time>
Me: Nope. We'll be there in eight hours. Goodnight.

<Repeat above about every 2-3 weeks>

Never heard a WORD from a chief pilot about any of that. Probably because they knew I had the FAA FSDO on speed dial and wouldn't hesitate to use it. Scheduling threatened me once by saying I couldn't call in fatigued. I told them I'd call the FAA to double check, but I'm pretty sure my company can't tell me I can't call in fatigued. They changed their turn pretty quickly then. Just sucks that you used to have to go through all that just to get 6 hours of sleep after a meltdown in JFK or DTW.
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BobDDuck said:
We had a crew fly from DCA to CAE once with a flight that was "canceled" after they left the ground. Of course nobody told the crew so when they got to Columbia nobody was there to meet the plane. It turned in to a big mess where the company initially went after the crew for "stealing" an airplane. After the feds got involved and threatened to fine the airline for losing operational control of a flight, the crew no longer was the subject of any investigation.
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I literally can't even...
 
Best flight to PIT I ever took was scrubbed due to WX.

I say this as former PIT Airfield Ops Manager.

Kudos to the cleaner who noticed. The majority there are the picture of incompetence. And Sorry, @kellwolf, I watched from OPS as an RJ sat stranded for 4 hours there due to a broken jet way six years ago. The place is a joke. They HAD professionals and they managed to chase them away.
 
I got stranded in Canada once. It was a US holiday so they assumed the flight was canceled and no one at DHL filed the customs paperwork for Canada.

All our dispatchers went home and no one in management would answer their phones. Took 2 hours before anyone finally started working on my problem. 3 before they got customs out to my plane yo say hello.

Worst part is that it was my first time going solo into CA. Doh!
 
genot said:
Kudos to the cleaner who noticed. The majority there are the picture of incompetence. And Sorry, @kellwolf, I watched from OPS as an RJ sat stranded for 4 hours there due to a broken jet way six years ago. The place is a joke. They HAD professionals and they managed to chase them away.
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That wasn't me, thankfully....but it coulda been.

Six years was before the whole "3 hour rule" got put in hard writing...I think. Either way, they'd probably say since it was at the gate and waiting for the jetbridge it didn't count. Enough people at the FAA are golfing buddies they'd either a) agree or b) significantly reduce the fine.

More importantly, I KNOW there are some airstairs SOMEWHERE in PIT. It's not that much of a leap of logic to go get them.....
 
I am actually surprised this doesnt happen more often especially at the regionals.

The OCC/SOC/IOC at most regionals are understaffed for a good weather day. When it becomes an IRROP
type of day, it becomes basically unmanageable.

At the regionals, the cancellations are typically done by the dispatchers working the equipment desks. Each airline has a name for them like coordinators, supervisors, managers even though they are basically doing what dispatchers working dispatch desks should be doing but have way too many releases to do. Their job is to do the equipment swaps and cancellations. This involves working with management, crew scheduling, revenue management and the management of the mainline partner, maintenance, dispatchers, and with station personnel to figure out how to deal with maintenance and weather issues.

Typically the equipment desks are grouped by hub and aircraft. When regionals get low on staffing, they often combine desks.

A few airlines and some of the union contracts allow non dispatchers to be hired into the equipment desks. This can present some issues at times at those carriers.

Your typical dispatcher at a regional has to work with 60-100 flights on a shift. A coordinator has to keep an eye on issues for double to triple that in terms of flights. For both, it quickly becomes unmanageable on a IRROP day. The phone can literally ring nonstop for 10 hours.

While nothing excuses these kinds of mistakes, the staffing and workload in an operations center lends itself to making mistakes when overloaded with work.
 
Maurus said:
I got stranded in Canada once. It was a US holiday so they assumed the flight was canceled and no one at DHL filed the customs paperwork for Canada. All our dispatchers went home and no one in management would answer their phones. Took 2 hours before anyone finally started working on my problem. 3 before they got customs out to my plane yo say hello. Worst part is that it was my first time going solo into CA. Doh!
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I thought you were going to tell your 121 story for Canada.
 
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