Endeavor flight gone awry

" the passengers were stuck on a tarmac in Pittsburgh for another hour" ::facepalm::

"IT'S NOT A TARMAC "CNN, Fox News, USA Today, MSNBC, and countless other world and local news services mess up aviation terminology daily. Even the aviation “analysts” and “experts” get mixed up from time to time. As a result, the public gets confused. No worries! AeroSavvy is here to help with a crash course in aviation terminology...."

http://aerosavvy.com/aviation-terminology/

Oh, and the pilot should've called 911...just sayin..
 
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kellwolf said:
I think what the article probably meant was they were DELAYED four hours, not that they were on a taxiway for four hours. Sometimes these news places forget what words mean.

Also, they seem to think Delta is being shady because the flight landed at 2:30 and Delta is saying it got there at 3:30. News outlets don't know the difference between On and In times, which is not surprising.

Kudos to the Pittsburgh airport for being pro active on that. Could have been another Rochester, MN episode. Although with the Endeavor people not caring as much anymore, the pilots probably woulda shut the thing down, opened the door and walked to the curb hoping someone would arrest them on the way.

I can't tell you the number of times there was a disconnect between Delta and PinnDeavor dispatch when I was there. Normally went like this:

Me: We're canceled.
Dispatch: We're still showing you as going. Don't go anywhere.
Me: I'm staring at the board that says canceled, and the gate agents are re-booking people. Pretty sure we're canceled.
Dispatch: Just hang out for a bit. Our system still shows you as scheduled.
Me: Ooooookay.

<two hours later>

ACARS: You're canceled.
Me: Hey, scheduling. We're canceled. Which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: No, we're still showing you going to DTW and then YYZ.
Me: No, we were canceled two hours ago. It took that long for it show in dispatch's system. Now, they're saying we're canceled.
Scheduling: Well, we're still showing you as not canceled, so we can't work on a hotel until you're canceled.
Me: <facepalm> Fine.

<45 minutes later>

Scheduling: Hey, Captain. Just wanted to get you notified of some schedule changes.
Me: We're canceled, right?
Scheduling: Hold on.......(bad blues music on hold)......uhhhhhh, yeah.
Me: Okay, which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: We're still working on that.
Me: <double facepalm> Okay. You can start our rest when we get to the hotel.
Scheduling: (looooong pause) But.....you're canceled. You're in rest as of.........30 minutes ago.
Me: (maniacal laughter) Really? 'Cause I'm just NOW being notified of this, and we have no place to go. You can't release us to sleep in the airport. I'll hold while you get us a hotel, and then I'll call you when we get there to start our rest.
Scheduling: Okay.

<30 minutes later>

Scheduling: You're going to the <insert roadside bed bug infested inn> and your show time is <8 hours from whatever time it was an hour ago>
Me: Okay, we're heading to the hotel. I'll call you when we get there and you can adjust the show time to 8 hours from then.
Scheduling: No, your show time is <insert their godawful early original time>
Me: We'll discuss this when I get to the hotel.

<60 minutes and a cab ride later>

Hotel clerk: We're still waiting on the fax to come in, so we can't give you keys yet.
Me: Yeah, I figured.

<30 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax still isn't here yet.

<15 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax finally came through, here are your rooms.

Me:Hey, scheduling. We finally got our rooms. Our show time is <insert now + 8 hours>
Scheduling: Uhhhh, no. Your show time is <insert original time>
Me: Nope. We'll be there in eight hours. Goodnight.

<Repeat above about every 2-3 weeks>

Never heard a WORD from a chief pilot about any of that. Probably because they knew I had the FAA FSDO on speed dial and wouldn't hesitate to use it. Scheduling threatened me once by saying I couldn't call in fatigued. I told them I'd call the FAA to double check, but I'm pretty sure my company can't tell me I can't call in fatigued. They changed their turn pretty quickly then. Just sucks that you used to have to go through all that just to get 6 hours of sleep after a meltdown in JFK or DTW.
Click to expand...
Thank you for, how do you say it, oh right. Thank you for BEING THE CAPTAIN.
 
kellwolf said:
I think what the article probably meant was they were DELAYED four hours, not that they were on a taxiway for four hours. Sometimes these news places forget what words mean.

Also, they seem to think Delta is being shady because the flight landed at 2:30 and Delta is saying it got there at 3:30. News outlets don't know the difference between On and In times, which is not surprising.

Kudos to the Pittsburgh airport for being pro active on that. Could have been another Rochester, MN episode. Although with the Endeavor people not caring as much anymore, the pilots probably woulda shut the thing down, opened the door and walked to the curb hoping someone would arrest them on the way.

I can't tell you the number of times there was a disconnect between Delta and PinnDeavor dispatch when I was there. Normally went like this:

Me: We're canceled.
Dispatch: We're still showing you as going. Don't go anywhere.
Me: I'm staring at the board that says canceled, and the gate agents are re-booking people. Pretty sure we're canceled.
Dispatch: Just hang out for a bit. Our system still shows you as scheduled.
Me: Ooooookay.

<two hours later>

ACARS: You're canceled.
Me: Hey, scheduling. We're canceled. Which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: No, we're still showing you going to DTW and then YYZ.
Me: No, we were canceled two hours ago. It took that long for it show in dispatch's system. Now, they're saying we're canceled.
Scheduling: Well, we're still showing you as not canceled, so we can't work on a hotel until you're canceled.
Me: <facepalm> Fine.

<45 minutes later>

Scheduling: Hey, Captain. Just wanted to get you notified of some schedule changes.
Me: We're canceled, right?
Scheduling: Hold on.......(bad blues music on hold)......uhhhhhh, yeah.
Me: Okay, which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: We're still working on that.
Me: <double facepalm> Okay. You can start our rest when we get to the hotel.
Scheduling: (looooong pause) But.....you're canceled. You're in rest as of.........30 minutes ago.
Me: (maniacal laughter) Really? 'Cause I'm just NOW being notified of this, and we have no place to go. You can't release us to sleep in the airport. I'll hold while you get us a hotel, and then I'll call you when we get there to start our rest.
Scheduling: Okay.

<30 minutes later>

Scheduling: You're going to the <insert roadside bed bug infested inn> and your show time is <8 hours from whatever time it was an hour ago>
Me: Okay, we're heading to the hotel. I'll call you when we get there and you can adjust the show time to 8 hours from then.
Scheduling: No, your show time is <insert their godawful early original time>
Me: We'll discuss this when I get to the hotel.

<60 minutes and a cab ride later>

Hotel clerk: We're still waiting on the fax to come in, so we can't give you keys yet.
Me: Yeah, I figured.

<30 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax still isn't here yet.

<15 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax finally came through, here are your rooms.

Me:Hey, scheduling. We finally got our rooms. Our show time is <insert now + 8 hours>
Scheduling: Uhhhh, no. Your show time is <insert original time>
Me: Nope. We'll be there in eight hours. Goodnight.

<Repeat above about every 2-3 weeks>

Never heard a WORD from a chief pilot about any of that. Probably because they knew I had the FAA FSDO on speed dial and wouldn't hesitate to use it. Scheduling threatened me once by saying I couldn't call in fatigued. I told them I'd call the FAA to double check, but I'm pretty sure my company can't tell me I can't call in fatigued. They changed their turn pretty quickly then. Just sucks that you used to have to go through all that just to get 6 hours of sleep after a meltdown in JFK or DTW.
Click to expand...

Nailed it. You sent chill down my back. I remember this way too well.
 
nocturnalaviator said:
" the passengers were stuck on a tarmac in Pittsburgh for another hour" ::facepalm::

"IT'S NOT A TARMAC "CNN, Fox News, USA Today, MSNBC, and countless other world and local news services mess up aviation terminology daily. Even the aviation “analysts” and “experts” get mixed up from time to time. As a result, the public gets confused. No worries! AeroSavvy is here to help with a crash course in aviation terminology...."

http://aerosavvy.com/aviation-terminology/

Oh, and the pilot should've called 911...just sayin..
Click to expand...

But they want to sound aviation savvy.......:D
 
kellwolf said:
I think what the article probably meant was they were DELAYED four hours, not that they were on a taxiway for four hours. Sometimes these news places forget what words mean.

Also, they seem to think Delta is being shady because the flight landed at 2:30 and Delta is saying it got there at 3:30. News outlets don't know the difference between On and In times, which is not surprising.

Kudos to the Pittsburgh airport for being pro active on that. Could have been another Rochester, MN episode. Although with the Endeavor people not caring as much anymore, the pilots probably woulda shut the thing down, opened the door and walked to the curb hoping someone would arrest them on the way.

I can't tell you the number of times there was a disconnect between Delta and PinnDeavor dispatch when I was there. Normally went like this:

Me: We're canceled.
Dispatch: We're still showing you as going. Don't go anywhere.
Me: I'm staring at the board that says canceled, and the gate agents are re-booking people. Pretty sure we're canceled.
Dispatch: Just hang out for a bit. Our system still shows you as scheduled.
Me: Ooooookay.

<two hours later>

ACARS: You're canceled.
Me: Hey, scheduling. We're canceled. Which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: No, we're still showing you going to DTW and then YYZ.
Me: No, we were canceled two hours ago. It took that long for it show in dispatch's system. Now, they're saying we're canceled.
Scheduling: Well, we're still showing you as not canceled, so we can't work on a hotel until you're canceled.
Me: <facepalm> Fine.

<45 minutes later>

Scheduling: Hey, Captain. Just wanted to get you notified of some schedule changes.
Me: We're canceled, right?
Scheduling: Hold on.......(bad blues music on hold)......uhhhhhh, yeah.
Me: Okay, which hotel are we going to?
Scheduling: We're still working on that.
Me: <double facepalm> Okay. You can start our rest when we get to the hotel.
Scheduling: (looooong pause) But.....you're canceled. You're in rest as of.........30 minutes ago.
Me: (maniacal laughter) Really? 'Cause I'm just NOW being notified of this, and we have no place to go. You can't release us to sleep in the airport. I'll hold while you get us a hotel, and then I'll call you when we get there to start our rest.
Scheduling: Okay.

<30 minutes later>

Scheduling: You're going to the <insert roadside bed bug infested inn> and your show time is <8 hours from whatever time it was an hour ago>
Me: Okay, we're heading to the hotel. I'll call you when we get there and you can adjust the show time to 8 hours from then.
Scheduling: No, your show time is <insert their godawful early original time>
Me: We'll discuss this when I get to the hotel.

<60 minutes and a cab ride later>

Hotel clerk: We're still waiting on the fax to come in, so we can't give you keys yet.
Me: Yeah, I figured.

<30 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax still isn't here yet.

<15 minutes later>

Hotel clerk: Fax finally came through, here are your rooms.

Me:Hey, scheduling. We finally got our rooms. Our show time is <insert now + 8 hours>
Scheduling: Uhhhh, no. Your show time is <insert original time>
Me: Nope. We'll be there in eight hours. Goodnight.

<Repeat above about every 2-3 weeks>

Never heard a WORD from a chief pilot about any of that. Probably because they knew I had the FAA FSDO on speed dial and wouldn't hesitate to use it. Scheduling threatened me once by saying I couldn't call in fatigued. I told them I'd call the FAA to double check, but I'm pretty sure my company can't tell me I can't call in fatigued. They changed their turn pretty quickly then. Just sucks that you used to have to go through all that just to get 6 hours of sleep after a meltdown in JFK or DTW.
Click to expand...

You are really making it difficult to go back to work tomorrow after 8 days off. :-/
 
Gotta be honest @kellwolf, I think it was much more fun filing ASAPs that the FAA would have to read every time something like that happened. Except somehow those ASAPs all got swept under the rug.
 
“Despite the situation, our operations staff was sensitive to the fact that the pilot wanted to deplane the passengers even though it’s not our job to pull up the jetway,” she said.

Yes, customer satisfaction is not your job....
 
moxiepilot said:
“Despite the situation, our operations staff was sensitive to the fact that the pilot wanted to deplane the passengers even though it’s not our job to pull up the jetway,” she said.

Yes, customer satisfaction is not your job....
Click to expand...

Keep in mind I worked airport ops a decade ago, so I may wrong. That was a quote from an airport employee, Joann Jenny, whose job has nothing to do with customer satisfaction. She doesn't work for Delta. More than likely that woman quoted is the PR woman who probably also wears 5 other hats and I'd bet the other 5 are all safety or safety and security related. The gate agents are checked out for the jetbridge, and airport MX would know how to use it. It is likely the cleaning woman who moved the jetbridge finally was someone who was once checked out for bridge operation, but hasn't worked one since her previous employeer canned her for working too many years as a customer service rep and the airline saw her as a senior employee making too much money.
 
moxiepilot said:
“Despite the situation, our operations staff was sensitive to the fact that the pilot wanted to deplane the passengers even though it’s not our job to pull up the jetway,” she said.

Yes, customer satisfaction is not your job....
Click to expand...

I think everyone would be much more willing to help out if they weren't so afraid of being sued. What would have happened if the airport employees damaged the plane? It's just the world we live in. You don't have to like it but the reality is, everyone is afraid of getting sued.
 
Typical Pinnacle. Let alone an IROP/cancelled situation, I had this happen to me once on a MSP-SBN flight. Apparently at the time it was new and a weekend-only thing and we landed as scheduled at night time. There wasn't a single soul in ops to meet us. Literally nobody was there. Ground/Tower (I think by night it was just one guy) said he'd try and make some calls. He confirmed there was no one, so he tried another airline operator. Finally we got one worker that wasn't even a 9E employee, but another airline brand (United Express I think). He marshalled us just to a hard stand (no jetbridge) and then the airport sent a fire truck as well before people would deplane and walk inside. This was years ago, and I do believe before the 3 hr tarmac rule. Oh well. Under Pinchanickel's crap rules, new flight routes were paid actual block so we just got to milk that.
 
Derg said:
Hell, call the station manager at home.

We had such amazingly obscene pick up times in IAH where we'd arrive at the airport 30 minutes before even the screeners were there and standing around in the terminal, outside of security and we called the duty pilot. He gave us the station manager's number, I called him at like 0430, woke him up and the problem got fixed.
Click to expand...
I ran into that once with a early show time. I just sat outside security at that starbucks. Theres an elevator to the bottom level that has a mini railroad train (I kid you not) that was designed by Disneyland engineers when they were let go from Disney. Dumb fact moment.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
My current company officially has a "Tarmac Delay Form." We fill that out if any taxi out / taxi in delay exceeds 2 hrs from Out to Off / On to In respectively. It stuck in my head as I typed that above.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah I know what your talking about now. Guess the flight attendants pick out the outfits and write the forms.
 
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