Eagle pilots reject 'or else' offer

Seggy said:
FedEx has 'size' but that doesn't give them leverage due to their business model.

Eagle and XJT have 'size' as well, but y'all even have LESS leverage than FedEx due to the regional business model.
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Sweetie, when you tell labor groups they have no leverage, they're going to start questioning the 1.95% they're sending, monthly, for a magazine they don't read.

Let's try this again, mm'kay? :)
 
Firebird2XC said:
Maybe that's what we need. There's something to be said for diplomacy, yes, but diplomacy is not the same as complicity. Some of our union officials might need a refresher course in the meanings of those two words.
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Yes.

We're going to proactively engage and 'de leverage' ourselves into a job situation not much better than a substitute teacher…. In Tennessee… How fun would THAT be?
 
Derg said:
Yes.

We're going to proactively engage and 'de leverage' ourselves into a job situation not much better than a substitute teacher…. In Tennessee… How fun would THAT be?
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I'm not really sure what that means. I try not to spend too much time in Tennessee. No good layovers there.

As for leverage- as was mentioned above- regionals operate up to 50% of a brand's total revenue traffic in some cases. And here's the kicker- because of the hub and spoke system, a large amount of those traveling into those hubs become traffic on the mainline partner's segments. If the regionals go away, sure, some folks will drive in, but a lot might not. And then who fills the seats of the mainline jets?

The regional market is more important to the whole of an airline than people think. And it's time we started acting like it at the negotiating table.
 
Derg said:
Sweetie, when you tell labor groups they have no leverage, they're going to start questioning the 1.95% they're sending, monthly, for a magazine they don't read.

Let's try this again, mm'kay? :)
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That isn't what I mean dear.

When FedEx was going through negotiations sometime in the mid 2000s there was NO way in hell they were going to be released by the NMB. Everyone knew that, so the union had to create leverage another way. Size has nothing to do with leverage. FedEx is a very unified and 'militant' group. A lot more unified and 'militant' than the Eagle and XJT/ASA folks. Even with this they still had no leverage.

So, the SPSC Folks started having FedEx Pilots picket FedEx Kinkos stores in mid market media areas and invited out the local ABC/NBC/CBS Stations to tape and interview the pilots walking around the strip malls in circles. FedEx flipped their lid when they saw the pilots educating the local media market businesses about the stress the pilot group is facing at work with their antiquated contract and by golly, the pilots want to get the packages from Omaha Steaks to their destination on time, but the company isn't playing nicely at the negotiating table.

The FedEx Pilots had a contract soon after they started this strategy.
 
Firebird2XC said:
I'm not really sure what that means. I try not to spend too much time in Tennessee. No good layovers there.

As for leverage- as was mentioned above- regionals operate up to 50% of a brand's total revenue traffic in some cases. And here's the kicker- because of the hub and spoke system, a large amount of those traveling into those hubs become traffic on the mainline partner's segments. If the regionals go away, sure, some folks will drive in, but a lot might not. And then who fills the seats of the mainline jets?

The regional market is more important to the whole of an airline than people think. And it's time we started acting like it at the negotiating table.
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Once again, size has nothing to do with leverage. Management views the regionals today as being very replaceable. The bigger you are, the less leverage you actually has by the NMB.

Look at FedEx, they are huge. That size didn't equate to leverage. They had to create leverage another way. They did that and it worked very well.
 
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Firebird2XC said:
Not really. Despite the very diplomatic wording of the union email to pilots, a proposal delivered with an ultimatum that isn't accepted officially amounts to "no". The fact that the MEC is drafting a counter offer by no means suggest capitulation, but rather an attempt towards a more realistic approach to the situation.
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You're so wrong, and you don't even know it. If the MEC "rejected" their proposal, then we wouldn't be crafting a counter-proposal. I'm sure it felt good to write it, but that fact is that your assertion is completely wrong and misleading.
 
bLizZuE said:
You're so wrong, and you don't even know it. If the MEC "rejected" their proposal, then we wouldn't be crafting a counter-proposal. I'm sure it felt good to write it, but that fact is that your assertion is completely wrong and misleading.
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Riiiiiiiight. :rolleyes: The company put a gun to our head and said "DO this or else!" And we said no. But failing to make a counter offer of some kind could be construed that we just don't want new jets- something still has to be said.

Think, man.
 
Firebird2XC said:
Riiiiiiiight. :rolleyes: The company put a gun to our head and said "DO this or else!" And we said no. But failing to make a counter offer of some kind could be construed that we just don't want new jets- something still has to be said.
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I'm getting confused. Did Eagle line guys vote on this proposal or is that at ExpressJet.
 
Seggy said:
Once again, size has nothing to do with leverage. Management views the regionals today as being very replaceable. The bigger you are, the less leverage you actually has by the NMB. Look at FedEx, they are huge. That size didn't equate to leverage. They had to create leverage another way. They did that and it worked very well.
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I absolutely LOVE what you shared about the FedEx pilot group.

However, and I swear to god I will go to hell still saying it...

The leadership, and MEC Representation at ASA, would never DARE do something so creative. They themselves are so far beyond terrified it makes me - and it should ever ASA pilot - sick. Further, this same leadership is up for re-election by the MEC Reps that brought us this TA here within the next month.

And no damn ASA pilot should think for any second anything will change when the same cowards re-elect the same "leader" of the past six years.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'm getting confused. Did Eagle line guys vote on this proposal or is that at ExpressJet.
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Eagle line guys did not vote. The MEC said "no thank you" and are going about drafting a more reasonable proposal.

I'm not really sure about XJT. It's my understanding that they have an actual TA to be voted on.
 
Firebird2XC said:
Riiiiiiiight. :rolleyes: The company put a gun to our head and said "DO this or else!" And we said no. But failing to make a counter offer of some kind could be construed that we just don't want new jets- something still has to be said.

Think, man.
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The company will always propose something with the terms "do this, or else" because it suits them. We didn't reject anything, we're crafting a counter-proposal. The last proposal that included a b-scale (which was infinitely better than our current offer) was something the MEC rejected. It also included "new" jets.
 
bLizZuE said:
The company will always propose something with the terms "do this, or else" because it suits them. We didn't reject anything, we're crafting a counter-proposal. The last proposal that included a b-scale (which was infinitely better than our current offer) was something the MEC rejected. It also included "new" jets.
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And hopefully this counter proposal is as equally as ludicrous as managements first offer. You won't attract new hires with the garbage that was offered. We have an 8 year abysmal concessionary contract. You think a 10 year contract with even worse amendments are going to keep this airline staffed? All with the "promises" of 60 shiny jets and a "modified" flow through? You are disillusioned.

S
 
Firebird2XC said:
Besides- the first rule of business is 'never accept their first offer'. A 'first offer' couched in a threat only proves they're weak. They went all in on the flop and tried to steal the blinds.
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Like the Price is Right game show. No one EVER takes the showcase #1 in the Showcase Showdown. They always pass it to the next guy.
 
Binet-Simon said:
And hopefully this counter proposal is as equally as ludicrous as managements first offer. You won't attract new hires with the garbage that was offered. We have an 8 year abysmal concessionary contract. You think a 10 year contract with even worse amendments are going to keep this airline staffed? All with the "promises" of 60 shiny jets and a "modified" flow through? You are disillusioned.

S
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They don't care about attracting new hires, in fact, that's the opposite of what our company cares about.

Our 8 year "abysmal" contract was the best bankruptcy contract that ever happened.

I sincerely hope you're speaking to management about being disillusioned.
 
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