Eagle pilots reject 'or else' offer

[roundout]

Post of the thread.

Wondering if you will either be ignored or told to 'be quiet'.


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The Comair guys had an enormous concentration at CVG. They went on strike and turned CVG into a ghost town. They got large advances in their CBA.

Delta shut down their most senior hub. Then they intermixed the various regionals on the routes do there wasn't a monopoly on "struck work". You were flying the 9 am departure, they flew the 10 am. Then Comair was shopped around with no takers. ASA was put on the block and Comair was shut down.

ACA and air wis told United to pay. ACA's managers thought they had IAD on lock. They were a huge airline and between the two carriers almost all United's feed. UAL told them both to take a walk. ACA vaporized and Air Wis put a sizable investment into airways to place their 50 seaters.

XJT was a wholly-owned for cal limited to 50 seaters. The company was spun off, and allowed to fend for itself with an uncompetitive fleet. Still taking 50 seat jets for that market that was over subscribed, while the independent competitors were already investing in larger aircraft.

As much as it sucks, mainline holds all the marbles. It's especially bad when a carrier only has one customer. It's not coincidental the feed monopoly ended for several carriers after the Comair strike.

Mainline will cut their nose to spite their face when it comes to regional feed.. They are aggressive and ruthless. Wholly-owned or not, the more diverse the customer base, the better your chances downline in a FFD world.

Best of luck to the eagle pilots. I hope you can be the ones that change the system.

This has already begun at eagle. It happened after we took concessions. our mec told us we would play nice get along, have a "sweet" fleet plan. Instead, they closed bases, gave flying to sky west, asa and republic, and no fleet plan has come. Obviously they already have a plan eagle. Why should we shoot ourselves in the foot while it plays out? a yes vote is not going to alter our future, though it might hasten it.

 

[roundout]

Remember that we hold zero similarities to AA. We are not a brand.

I disagree. In fact, "American eagle" is such a good brand that it's being painted on aircraft in Brazil right this second....you know, the ones going to airlines which aren't American eagle. The customers may or may not notice. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. The only thing which matters money.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Published and paid. No claim to be a very good writer, though.

I'm not crying, I'm just trying to bring you back to the planet we live on. I certainly hope we get a shot at a better deal than what was offered, but I have little hope for much improvement.

I'm never following YOU anywhere.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Post of the thread.

Wondering if you will either be ignored or told to 'be quiet'.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, shutup, you.

... and it wasn't that great of a post. It was a good history lesson, but as history is the process of using the past to predict the future, it's a little lacking.

It's not the same world or the same set of rules. Things have changed. It's time to see things as they are *now* and move forward.

It's time to go on the offensive.

 

[derg]

I'm never following YOU anywhere.

"Follow me for free tacos" even?

Damn, that's a pretty absolute statement.

 

[bLizZuE]

I disagree. In fact, "American eagle" is such a good brand that it's being painted on aircraft in Brazil right this second....you know, the ones going to airlines which aren't American eagle. The customers may or may not notice. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. The only thing which matters money.

American Eagle is definitely a brand, but it does not belong to the Eagle pilots like the American Airlines brand belongs to AA pilots. That's the difference. They can't be replaced, we can.

 

[roundout]

Published and paid. No claim to be a very good writer, though.

I'm not crying, I'm just trying to bring you back to the planet we live on. I certainly hope we get a shot at a better deal than what was offered, but I have little hope for much improvement.

So here's the crux of the matter, then: how much do you like flying for American eagle? Are you willing to take a pay cut EVERY YEAR to continue while your peers get raises? Willing to take on a second job to finance your first? When is enough enough?

 

[derg]

American Eagle is definitely a brand, but it does not belong to the Eagle pilots like the American Airlines brand belongs to AA pilots. That's the difference. They can't be replaced, we can.

Why I always tell guys to not get too comfortable until the name on the check matches the name on the side of the airplane, and those two match the brand.

Hell, we had everything smaller than an MD-88 "replaced" so I'm highly replaceable myself.

 

[roundout]

American Eagle is definitely a brand, but it does not belong to the Eagle pilots like the American Airlines brand belongs to AA pilots. That's the difference. They can't be replaced, we can.

I'm not arguing that we can't be replaced-it's already started. It's likely going to continue. So, knowing that, why cripple yourself while the inevitable unfolds?

Here's a scenario: we take concessions Jan 13 at midnight. Pedro and Doug say "great, your planes arrive 2015 first quarter." Your pay decreases several thousand bucks a year. You adjust your finances accordingly. First quarter comes and goes, but no planes come. Pedro and Doug say "we're sorry, but you're still too expensive.we have choice but to send these planes to republic." Now you're stuck. BEST CASE you keep your job flying the Barbie jet. REAL MONEY isn't in your bank account or your 401k. This isn't numbers on paper...it's money....the kind you need retire, to live, or to use if a loved needs medical care.

 

[scooter2525]

Hell, we had everything smaller than an MD-88 "replaced" so I'm highly replaceable myself.

You are one of a kind derg.

 

[derg]

You are one of a kind derg.

Aww! *Hugs*

 

[bLizZuE]

So here's the crux of the matter, then: how much do you like flying for American eagle? Are you willing to take a pay cut EVERY YEAR to continue while your peers get raises? Willing to take on a second job to finance your first? When is enough enough?

I'm not arguing that we can't be replaced-it's already started. It's likely going to continue. So, knowing that, why cripple yourself while the inevitable unfolds?

Here's a scenario: we take concessions Jan 13 at midnight. Pedro and Doug say "great, your planes arrive 2015 first quarter." Your pay decreases several thousand bucks a year. You adjust your finances accordingly. First quarter comes and goes, but no planes come. Pedro and Doug say "we're sorry, but you're still too expensive.we have choice but to send these planes to republic." Now you're stuck. BEST CASE you keep your job flying the Barbie jet. REAL MONEY isn't in your bank account or your 401k. This isn't numbers on paper...it's money....the kind you need retire, to live, or to use if a loved needs medical care.

Time off and W2, nothing else matters.

Of course the company could do all those things, they could last year, yesterday, tomorrow, and next year. I, like every Eagle pilot, would love to tell the company to shove their offer someplace private. It would feel good, for a moment. Unfortunately the options are limited and the outcomes detailed in front of us. Whatever the results of these negotiations, the pilots should vote on the ultimate deal. Vote on it, own it, and move on from there.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

According to sources in the American Eagle pilot group today, American Eagle's pilot ALPA MEC has rejected the 'or else be Comair'ed!' proposal issued by the company.

They have instead appointed a new negotiating committee chair with the intent of submitting a counter proposal.

NO CONCESSIONS! NO WAVERING!

Just saw your thread. Like I said Firebird, we got your back here. If any AE flying does come, it won't be because we accepted a substandard contract to whipsaw you.

Our current stance is were not passing any TA without decent: hourly raises, trip rigs or duty rigs, and cx pay. Period.

Looks like the naysayers from the previous thread were wrong after all.

 

[block30]

I inquired about one of their branch locations once. It was a local outfit operating through a partnership. One plane. One instructor. Are these 'new schools' an increase in the training hour supply? Or just them buying out smaller outfits to increase market share? Do you know? Your statement is Sophistry.

The decline in new certificate applications is better forecast of pilot training.

The flight school where I did my multi work advertised planes with GPS, radar, and storm scopes. One had GPS, one had radar (which didn't work), one had a storm scope...

Using flight school propaganda to support an argument is kinda reaching.

What? Are you saying I am reaching?? What am In reaching for? I was just soliciting people's input as to what is going on at ATP. I assumed they are finding financial reasons to expand. Did I come off as brusque?

 

[Trip7]

Guys, Eagle nor XJT is going anywhere. Sure some 50 seaters won't be replaced, but the companies will remain. The Comair comparisions are irrelevant. This is a new day in the regional industry. Mainline partners will soon shift their attention to helping get regional flights on some kind of a reliable schedule. Shifting large amounts of regional flying around will create a meltdown on top of the current meltdown.

Have your popcorn ready for 2014!

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[Trip7]

Guys, Eagle nor XJT are not going anywhere. Sure some 50 seaters won't be replaced, but the companies will remain. The Comair comparisions are irrelevant. This is a new day in the regional industry. Mainline partners will soon shift their attention to helping get regional flights on some kind of a reliable schedule. Shifting large amounts of regional flying around will create a meltdown on top of the current meltdown.

Have your popcorn ready for 2014!

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Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[eightballfreight]

So who went on strike and killed Cleveland?

 

[roundout]

The Comair comparisions are irrelevant.

We aren't coming up with the tem "comair" out of the blue.management said "without what [they] consider to be a cost competitive agreement, [they] will place the aircraft with a competing carrier and we would become "Comair II." Is it sabre rattling? Maybe. But that was the term THEY used to threaten us.

 

[Bama]

Guys, Eagle nor XJT is going anywhere. Sure some 50 seaters won't be replaced, but the companies will remain. The Comair comparisions are irrelevant. This is a new day in the regional industry. Mainline partners will soon shift their attention to helping get regional flights on some kind of a reliable schedule. Shifting large amounts of regional flying around will create a meltdown on top of the current meltdown.

Have your popcorn ready for 2014!

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Just outta curiosity, what is your standing record as a prognosticator, anyway? Are you even batting 500?

Nothin but love. Just curious.

 

[Trip7]

Just outta curiosity, what is your standing record as a prognosticator, anyway? Are you even batting 500?

Looking at my post history, nothing has been far off except ASA growing like crazy