Eagle Denying Jumpseats to CHQ

[Jake Wheeler]

Well said.

If it was for a safety reason, he'd be right, but if it was because he didn't like him, he'd be wrong.

Thats crap.

The jumpseat one denies today for a trivial or stupid reason, will be the jumpeat they get denied tomorrow down the road sometime.........sometime when they really need it.

It is crap. Too bad the pilots who play politics with the jumpseat usually aren't commuters. If this story is true, then it will be up to the Eagle commuter pilots to put the Eagle Captain on their turdbird list.

 

[727to7400]

If it was for a safety reason, he'd be right, but if it was because he didn't like him, he'd be wrong.

It is crap. Too bad the pilots who play politics with the jumpseat usually aren't commuters. If this story is true, then it will be up to the Eagle commuter pilots to put the Eagle Captain on their turdbird list.

Jake's 100% right. Safety, belligerence, under the influence...all good reasons. If the guy has a legal right to non rev and you deny him "just because"...that's total BS and an abuse of Captains Authority. And a real fast track into the Chief Pilots office. Your "reason" better be bulletproof.

If you don't like the guy, fine, don't let him/her up front. You have no business acting like an idiot. There's enough of them in management.

 

[kellwolf]

What part of "if I denied him the JS, I did it for a reason" do people just skim over? I never said I'd deny someone a JS just because I didn't like them. Most guys here will non-rev over JS anyway. Most of the times, you're higher priority that way. If there's a reason I deny someone a JS, that same reason is gonna still apply if they're non-revving. I don't deny guys for having bad haircuts or funny mustaches (although the latter may TECHNICALLY be a violation of appearance guidelines). In fact, I have yet to deny a JSer for any reason. But anyone that gets denied a JS and then decided to do the non-rev thing is likely gonna be a total DB, and I'd happily take a trip to the CP's office and have a chat with the JS coordinator on the way.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I'm with kellwolf. About 3 years ago we had a Mesa pilot make such an ass of herself that not only did she not nonrev but the Captain on the flight got her Airways flight benefits revoked.

 

[Polar742]

What part of "if I denied him the JS, I did it for a reason" do people just skim over?

I've done just that, and it was one of our pilots.

Here's the story.

We arrive at the terminal. (A very small terminal in very southern FL) One of our pilots approaches me, he's wearing street clothes. What I hear, and apparently it was as loud as I though because the passengers outside the terminal getting on the flight were looking over, was, "Yeah, me and my bud were out all night at the bars. He needs to get to XYZ to work tomorrow"

So here I am, standing in uniform with my crew, being asked if I can carry a guy who was out drinking at the bars all night, in full view of passengers on the jet. I tell him, I'll see what I can do, looking very sheepish due to the situation.

We get out to the jet. Did I mention it's Spring Break time and the flight is oversold? Oh, and the runway is real short. And they want as many bags as I can take, as a new technology jet (the CRJ700) broke the night before.

Luckily, we had completely manual performance, so things can happen. Well, I find with all the folks and bags, I'm at the ZFW limit. The gate asks if I can take a jump, I say probably not likely. They come back out and say he'd like to talk to me.

I'm heads down in the performance book trying to get the pencil real sharp. I do want to take everyone, but I've already been put in a pinch in front of the terminal. Now this guy comes out, never met him before. New hire FO, and I explain the situation.

As serious as can be, he looks at me and says, "Did you take the headwind credit?". After your buddy was loudly telling me in front of all the pax that you guys were out drinking all night (early AM departure) and now this? Does the word "Professional" ever cross the mind?

Sorry, I'm over weight.

No phone calls.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

If it was for a safety reason, he'd be right, but if it was because he didn't like him, he'd be wrong.

He's the captain. I don't care if it is because he doesn't like the guy's haircut, he still has the authority.

When will you guys stop voluntarily giving away captain's authority? :banghead:

 

[surreal1221]

He's the captain. I don't care if it is because he doesn't like the guy's haircut, he still has the authority.

When will you guys stop voluntarily giving away captain's authority? :banghead:

When we start educating.

Though, you do have to recognize Todd, that most people who enter this profession never had any form of command authority or supervisory position before in their life (at least in recent years - thanks to the wonders of CRJ Transition courses and hiring at 190/250 hours respectively). So, when they get into the Captain's seat, they have no frame of reference or perspective of how to properly exercise any amount of authority besides what it is the company (note: Not union) has given them.

That, really is the problem.

 

[MikeD]

He's the captain. I don't care if it is because he doesn't like the guy's haircut, he still has the authority.

When will you guys stop voluntarily giving away captain's authority? :banghead:

Taking away Captain authority is bad, I fully agree.

I was arguing a particular of how some guys exercise that authority. Sure, a Captain should be able to deny a jumpseat for anything, from an authority standpoint. From a reasonableness standpoint, denying a jumpseat for a trivial reason (such as the title of this thread) should be cause for that decision to be questioned IMHO.

 

[727to7400]

Taking away Captain authority is bad, I fully agree.

I was arguing a particular of how some guys exercise that authority. Sure, a Captain should be able to deny a jumpseat for anything, from an authority standpoint. From a reasonableness standpoint, denying a jumpseat for a trivial reason (such as the title of this thread) should be cause for that decision to be questioned IMHO.

Mike, you're dead on correct. As Polar742 pointed out, there's a huge difference in a denial because of operational requirements or someone who clearly is out of bounds. When someone denies a jumpseat for cause, that's one thing. When they do it just because they can, that's not Captains Authority, that's abuse of Captain's Authority. If the jumpseater has the legal right to fly as a non rev and is not drunk, belligerent, not properly attired...or whatever...and the Captain refuses to let them fly as a non rev, then that's a Captain with a serious ego issue.

Every once in awhile, you get a few folks who stand on their soapbox and rail about "Captain's Authority." Forgetting that with authority comes the responsibility to not act irresponsibly.

Management unfortunately has a self correcting mechanism for that. They can and have, made blanket policies to block the jumpseat except for official business (FAA, Check Airmen, Secret Service, etc.)

It only takes a couple of fools who consider themselves self important to screw it up for everyone.

 

[falconvalley]

I was talking about grudge matches, not captains who become wall flowers when they see gutter trash making a mess in 14G. I've seen enough people abuse authority in my time to know that it goes the other way.