Downfall-The Case Against Boeing (Netflix)

WacoFan said:
I'm not sure if this guy was a scumbag or not. Even if he was unreformed scum, I got the distinct whiff of Boeing and the FAA putting out the "We got us a scapegoat and then it'll all get better" scent in the air. That he was the only one prosecuted out of an enormous pool of humans at Boeing. FAA, etc - it's like when the Manhattan DA indicted the one small Chinese-American bank for the 2008 meltdown and that is the only financial institution indicted.
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I agree that he was being used as a scapegoat. But when someone orders a hit on someone else, we don't let the assassin go free.
 
Skåning said:
That's the current stab runaway memory item, modified after the crashes, but what did it look like at the time?
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Actually that is the old Runaway Stabilizer memory item.

The new one specifically mentions thrust levers as a result of the Ethiopian crash. New:

1. Control Column - Hold Firmly
2. Autopilot (if engaged) - Disengage
3. Autothrottle (if engaged) - Disengage
4. Control Column and thrust levers - Control airplane pitch attitude and airspeed
5. Main electric stabilizer trim - Reduce control column forces
6. If the runaway stops after the autopilot is disengaged: Do not re-engage the autopilot or autothrottle
Boeing checklist complete symbol here if 6 is True
7. If the runaway continues after the autopilot is disengaged - STAB TRIM cutout switches (both) - CUTOUT
If the runaway continues: Stabilizer trim wheel grasp and hold
End of memory items symbol here
8. Stabilizer - Trim manually
A two pilot effort may be used to correct an out of trim condition
Note: Reducing airspeed reduces airloads on the stabilizer which can reduce the effort needed to manually trim
9. Antincipate trim requirements
10. Do not re-engage the autopilot or autothrottle.
 
Murdoughnut said:
What's the gist of his argument for those of us at work who don't have an hour to listen to it?
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It boils down to Boeing made some mistakes, but the story that it's entirely Boeing's fault is not in line with the facts of the accidents. One accident, the plane flew for several minutes with the captain manually retrimming each time the MCAS fired. The crash occurred after the captain handed the controls to the FO without briefing him of the condition of the airplane or how to manage it. The other was a plane that had been flying with recurring writeups on the MCAS system for a solid month without being properly fixed, but other pilots had flown the plane with MCAS not working and hadn't crashed.

There are apparently several cases of US pilots writing up an MCAS fault, and none were even really incidents/events. They say that while the plane had a problem, proper training still should have prevented both accidents.
 
msmspilot said:
It boils down to Boeing made some mistakes, but the story that it's entirely Boeing's fault is not in line with the facts of the accidents. One accident, the plane flew for several minutes with the captain manually retrimming each time the MCAS fired. The crash occurred after the captain handed the controls to the FO without briefing him of the condition of the airplane or how to manage it. The other was a plane that had been flying with recurring writeups on the MCAS system for a solid month without being properly fixed, but other pilots had flown the plane with MCAS not working and hadn't crashed.

There are apparently several cases of US pilots writing up an MCAS fault, and none were even really incidents/events. They say that while the plane had a problem, proper training still should have prevented both accidents.
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Very succinct and accurate.
 
This one's for @SlumTodd_Millionaire

In April 2016, when Boeing’s 737 MAX was in flight test a year ahead of its certification by the Federal Aviation Administration, Southwest Airlines made a strange proposal to Boeing — one that suggests an effort to deceive the FAA.

According to a legal filing by attorneys pursuing a lawsuit against the airline, Southwest manager Bill Lusk asked Boeing officials, including the MAX chief technical pilot Mark Forkner, if engineers could install a new flight control safety alert required for the MAX on a single one of Southwest’s older 737s — and then deactivate it once the MAX was certified.

The filing in a Texas lawsuit in late March alleges that the sole purpose of this proposal was to be able to tell the FAA that the alert was not new on the MAX, so that it wouldn’t trigger costly additional pilot training that Southwest was determined to avoid.
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www.seattletimes.com

Southwest Airlines proposed a ploy to deceive FAA on Boeing 737 MAX, legal filing alleges

A legal filing suggests Southwest Airlines was deeply involved in decisions about pilot training on Boeing's 737 MAX, including an alleged effort to deceive the FAA.
www.seattletimes.com www.seattletimes.com
 
Minuteman said:
This one's for @SlumTodd_Millionaire



www.seattletimes.com

Southwest Airlines proposed a ploy to deceive FAA on Boeing 737 MAX, legal filing alleges

A legal filing suggests Southwest Airlines was deeply involved in decisions about pilot training on Boeing's 737 MAX, including an alleged effort to deceive the FAA.
www.seattletimes.com www.seattletimes.com
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I’ve been saying it for over twenty years, and nobody wants to believe it: the safety culture at Southpest is atrocious. It is nothing but a redneck good ‘ole boy “git’r dun” attitude.
 
msmspilot said:
There are apparently several cases of US pilots writing up an MCAS fault, and none were even really incidents/events. They say that while the plane had a problem, proper training still should have prevented both accidents.
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End of the day they still delivered a bad product and actively sought to reduce that very training.
 
bike21 said:
End of the day they still delivered a bad product and actively sought to reduce that very training.
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I don't think anyone is saying Boeing isn't part of the problem. Just that saying Boeing is the sole issue with the 737Max is like saying soda/coke/pop is the sole reason Americans are fat.
 
msmspilot said:
I don't think anyone is saying Boeing isn't part of the problem. Just that saying Boeing is the sole issue with the 737Max is like saying soda/coke/pop is the sole reason Americans are fat.
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Making poor lifestyle decisions ≠ purposefully deceiving professional aviators.
 
msmspilot said:
www.cbsnews.com

Sugar industry hid decades-old study on health risks, report says

A new report suggests industry leaders copied the playbook of Big Tobacco and suppressed research linking sugar to serious illnesses
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

I would say the sugar in our diets in an excellent corollary.
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Fair, but plenty of other industries have done the same; automakers, big oil, dietary supplements, etc. To some degree consumers are happy to look the other way or take what a company says at face value.

However, anyone building airplanes in the 21st century should be held to a higher standard IMO.
 
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