Don't need a degree eh?

[Firebird2XC]

This thread has devolved into the usual: My way is better than yours!

I've had this debate with my three siblings, because out of the four I'm the only one that didn't go to a traditional college setup to get a degree.

In terms of airline applications, it's just one of the ways an airline can choose to cull the herd of drooling applicants. We don't really have a choice about it. Like it or not, it's not up to us. That being said, arguing over whether or not it makes you more qualified as a pilot seems a little irrelevant. You could have a degree in a completely non-related field, and still show up with the same general skill set as a pilot who has never set foot in a college.

Example: In the Army, we had commissioned officers with (degree required) sitting next to warrant officers (no degree required) any given day in the helicopter. Who was a better, more qualified pilot? The guy who'd spent more time flying. Period.

Ergo, it doesn't make you more qualified as a pilot... just as an applicant, and that'll vary from place to place.

All this argument really boils down to is some pilots saying "I've got a resume bullet that yoooouuu don't.."

Then the contest ensues. Everybody breaks out a ruler to see who's biggest today. Oddly enough with some of the arguments I see... I think maybe a micrometer might be more in order...

That being said, no, I don't have a degree, and I didn't go to traditional four year college. I took a different path.

Am I getting a degree? You bet.

 

[jtrain609]

This thread has devolved into the usual: My way is better than yours!

I've had this debate with my three siblings, because out of the four I'm the only one that didn't go to a traditional college setup to get a degree.

In terms of airline applications, it's just one of the ways an airline can choose to cull the herd of drooling applicants. We don't really have a choice about it. Like it or not, it's not up to us. That being said, arguing over whether or not it makes you more qualified as a pilot seems a little irrelevant. You could have a degree in a completely non-related field, and still show up with the same general skill set as a pilot who has never set foot in a college.

Example: In the Army, we had commissioned officers with (degree required) sitting next to warrant officers (no degree required) any given day in the helicopter. Who was a better, more qualified pilot? The guy who'd spent more time flying. Period.

Ergo, it doesn't make you more qualified as a pilot... just as an applicant, and that'll vary from place to place.

All this argument really boils down to is some pilots saying "I've got a resume bullet that yoooouuu don't.."

Then the contest ensues. Everybody breaks out a ruler to see who's biggest today. Oddly enough with some of the arguments I see... I think maybe a micrometer might be more in order...

That being said, no, I don't have a degree, and I didn't go to traditional four year college. I took a different path.

Am I getting a degree? You bet.

Excellent points! And you nailed it; it will make you a better qualified APPLICANT because when it boils down to it THAT is what matters. An airline can't see your great decision making skills in the Cessna 172, or that you are an awesome guy to hang out with, but they will make sure you meet the qualifications and if there is somebody more qualified sitting next to you, well, good luck.

 

[darrenf]

Not necessarily true in this business. I papered the world with resumes. I got hired by the airline that I didn't know a soul at. All the other ones where I had personal recommendations didn't give me the time of day.

You mean all the other companies that knew you, correct?? :buck:

 

[Airdale]

This thread has devolved into the usual: My way is better than yours!

I've had this debate with my three siblings, because out of the four I'm the only one that didn't go to a traditional college setup to get a degree.

In terms of airline applications, it's just one of the ways an airline can choose to cull the herd of drooling applicants. We don't really have a choice about it. Like it or not, it's not up to us. That being said, arguing over whether or not it makes you more qualified as a pilot seems a little irrelevant. You could have a degree in a completely non-related field, and still show up with the same general skill set as a pilot who has never set foot in a college.

Example: In the Army, we had commissioned officers with (degree required) sitting next to warrant officers (no degree required) any given day in the helicopter. Who was a better, more qualified pilot? The guy who'd spent more time flying. Period.

Ergo, it doesn't make you more qualified as a pilot... just as an applicant, and that'll vary from place to place.

All this argument really boils down to is some pilots saying "I've got a resume bullet that yoooouuu don't.."

Then the contest ensues. Everybody breaks out a ruler to see who's biggest today. Oddly enough with some of the arguments I see... I think maybe a micrometer might be more in order...

That being said, no, I don't have a degree, and I didn't go to traditional four year college. I took a different path.

Am I getting a degree? You bet.

Nice post Charlie, I agree 100%. Like I've stated before, I have friends from high school that went to college while I went in the military. Some of them ended up with a degree after 4+ years and to this day don't have a decent job.

One of my friends majored in history, because his parents made him go to college but he never really had any career aspirations. So now he's a labor worker making $13/hr but he has a 4yr degree.

I think military experience is invaluable to one's personal development, and being in the military in a crew environment is excellent preparation for this career.

The point being, that college is becoming the new high school. Just about everyone is going. And while a lot of kids are doing great things with College, and pursuing degrees in lucrative fields and doing well, I'd say the majority just piss away their parents money. College can make you more rounded as a high school grad, but I still think the military experience is above college. Needless to say, like you, I've got my GI bill and luckily while I was AD I was taking college courses when I could. Right now I'm at 60 credits and haven't touched a dime with my GI bill. I'm looking to start in the summer working towards a degree in Wildlife Management/Conservation. That way if I decide to bail from this career, my backup plan is to become a Conservation Officer.

But just because someone went to college doesn't make them better than the next guy. I'll put my military experience up against someone's degree anyday in terms of who has the better experience.

 

[Firebird2XC]

But just because someone went to college doesn't make them better than the next guy. I'll put my military experience up against someone's degree anyday in terms of who has the better experience.

Me too. I think having a degree AND military service history is a huge boon to any applicant. For one, military service shows various qualities of character that a degree in alot of ways cannot. Having a degree AND military service (especially if you got the degree while serving full time) shows huge adaptability. I've heard this more than once.

As for the GI Bill- Embry Riddle wants $600 plus per class per three month term online. Since I'm using what's left of my GI Bill money to finance going back to school.. cheaper would be better. Know any good options?

Keep in mind, however, that Riddle gives a bucketload of credits to guys with commercial certificates in hand. That kinda evens it all out. Have any luck in that vein?

 

[Sprint100]

Me too. I think having a degree AND military service history is a huge boon to any applicant. For one, military service shows various qualities of character that a degree in alot of ways cannot. Having a degree AND military service (especially if you got the degree while serving full time) shows huge adaptability. I've heard this more than once.

I'm jealous I never went to the military, another dumb-a$$ decision by this immature, know it all teenager!!! All I had to do was get my arse up, meet up with my recruiter and other recruits, and go swear in at MEPS:banghead:

 

[jtrain609]

YOU will put your military experience up against a college degree, but will an HR department? We're not discussing what YOU think is more valuable, we're talking about the people evaluating you think is more valuable. I'm not going to try to play down military experience at all, mostly because I don't know a ton about it and if you were a pilot in the military you most likely have MUCH better training than me, but what's the HR department think?

I think Firebird just nailed it, and this is what I was trying to get at with my initial post: you're setting yourself apart by having both of these boxes checked, and by doing so you're making yourself more competitive. Having both military experience AND a college degree is a one, two punch that most people can't hold a candle to.

I know I can't, and I'll have to work with other aspects of my resume to make myself more marketable in relation to those guys.

 

[Airdale]

YOU will put your military experience up against a college degree, but will an HR department? We're not discussing what YOU think is more valuable, we're talking about the people evaluating you think is more valuable. I'm not going to try to play down military experience at all, mostly because I don't know a ton about it and if you were a pilot in the military you most likely have MUCH better training than me, but what's the HR department think?

I think Firebird just nailed it, and this is what I was trying to get at with my initial post: you're setting yourself apart by having both of these boxes checked, and by doing so you're making yourself more competitive. Having both military experience AND a college degree is a one, two punch that most people can't hold a candle to.

I know I can't, and I'll have to work with other aspects of my resume to make myself more marketable in relation to those guys.

Oh I know we're talking HR departments here. My response was really just in reply to your tone in the initial post. I like you and all, but you sounded pretty "above all else" in your post because you went to college. Thats all.

 

[Qgar]

As in all industries, knowing people certainly doesn't hurt either. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the way the world works.

 

[Airdale]

Me too. I think having a degree AND military service history is a huge boon to any applicant. For one, military service shows various qualities of character that a degree in alot of ways cannot. Having a degree AND military service (especially if you got the degree while serving full time) shows huge adaptability. I've heard this more than once.

As for the GI Bill- Embry Riddle wants $600 plus per class per three month term online. Since I'm using what's left of my GI Bill money to finance going back to school.. cheaper would be better. Know any good options?

Keep in mind, however, that Riddle gives a bucketload of credits to guys with commercial certificates in hand. That kinda evens it all out. Have any luck in that vein?

Dude, screw Riddle!! You're going to lose half of your GI bill. Look into Utah Valley State College. They have online degree programs and they will give you the same credit for your Aviation certs. that riddle will at half the price.

When I was active duty, I was doing Thomas Edison State College, in NJ. They have online programs as well. My 60 credits to date do not include credit for aviation certs. I received some credits from them for military training and experience, but mostly I worked out 2 years of my required Gen. Ed. courses through online courses and CLEP tests.

What I plan to do is enroll in UVSC, get credit for my Aviation certs then transfer those to Thomas Edison and at that point, I'll just have to take my degree related courses in the Conservation field, which includes a few labs that I'll have to work out between my schedule.

Do it cheap my friend!! Don't waste your GI bill just for the name on the paper.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I think Firebird just nailed it, and this is what I was trying to get at with my initial post: you're setting yourself apart by having both of these boxes checked, and by doing so you're making yourself more competitive. Having both military experience AND a college degree is a one, two punch that most people can't hold a candle to.

I know I can't, and I'll have to work with other aspects of my resume to make myself more marketable in relation to those guys.

Thanks. The downside to my scheme is that in the interim, the market may change. Getting the flying gig first was the number one priority because you can go to college in your spare time- you can't fly a full time airline job in your spare time. Now I have to finish about 50% of a degree by the time I've been a captain for two years.

That's one of the reasons why I came to Eagle not sweating upgrade so much. If a degree is really a hard requirement for serious consideration, I've got a few years before I need that TPIC. Then again, by the time I get it all done the company or industry might've just tanked and I'll be glad I have my seniority number.

 

[jtrain609]

Oh I know we're talking HR departments here. My response was really just in reply to your tone in the initial post. I like you and all, but you sounded pretty "above all else" in your post because you went to college. Thats all.

I ain't above much of anybody man. Almost all my friends are better qualified than me and I'm WELL aware of it. I hope others realize that getting this job isn't about how good you feel about your qualifications and how swell of a guy you are, but that if you don't man up and get competitive with this job you WILL find yourself on the street and your buddy that did X thing better than you has the job you wanted (by you I don't mean the you, Dale, just a general you).

As Doug said, this country isn't great because of scoreless soccer, it's great because people are willing to pummel each other to get to the top and be the absolute best, not meet the absolute minimum.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Dude, screw Riddle!! You're going to lose half of your GI bill. Look into Utah Valley State College. They have online degree programs and they will give you the same credit for your Aviation certs. that riddle will at half the price.

When I was active duty, I was doing Thomas Edison State College, in NJ. They have online programs as well. My 60 credits to date do not include credit for aviation certs. I received some credits from them for military training and experience, but mostly I worked out 2 years of my required Gen. Ed. courses through online courses and CLEP tests.

What I plan to do is enroll in UVSC, get credit for my Aviation certs then transfer those to Thomas Edison and at that point, I'll just have to take my degree related courses in the Conservation field, which includes a few labs that I'll have to work out between my schedule.

Do it cheap my friend!! Don't waste your GI bill just for the name on the paper.

Yeah.. do it cheap, but how much cheaper? I've already had a coupla classes with Riddle, and would I get equal credits elsewhere?

Cheaper IS better, of course, as I just want the sheepskin.. I'm just curious if you know anything about prices? Getting some of these places to pony up numbers is a little trying. Especially when they hear GI Bill- because they envision a guy sitting there with 40 grand to blow.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I'm jealous I never went to the military, another dumb-a$$ decision by this immature, know it all teenager!!! All I had to do was get my arse up, meet up with my recruiter and other recruits, and go swear in at MEPS:banghead:

If you still want to do it, there's always the Guard.

One weekend a month, two weeks a year...

... unless they throw in a year deployment somewhere hot and sandy.

Don't stress yourself too much man. It's a resume bullet, to be sure, but you could say that I bet my life on it. Getting shot at is only a fun story if the bad guys always miss.

 

[derg]

Learn where you're happiest learning so that way you'll get it done.

If I'm ever on a hiring board, I'm going to get my kicks from asking, "So, how was Utah? You, uhh, didn't actually go to school in Utah? But your, OOOOOOH! One of them!"

 

[Firebird2XC]

As Doug said, this country isn't great because of scoreless soccer, it's great because people are willing to pummel each other to get to the top and be the absolute best, not meet the absolute minimum.

The above state is true, but getting to the top doesn't always require working harder.

If the rungs on the ladder are a little closer together, it's easier to climb higher, faster. Personally I think using the 'minimum requirements' to reach that next rung doesn't mean you'll get the minimum return on that investment.

It's all about the cost of that opportunity. If I knew I could get hired at a major without a degree, a degree would be way further down my priority list.

It's like that movie 'Accepted' where Lewis Black is ranting about the BS they throw out at colleges these days. You can talk about being 'well-rounded' and a more developed individual all you want, but the real truth behind colleges these days is that they're selling tickets to a better job pool.

 

[Qgar]

I'm curious as to whether there are any people on JC now who are on any airline hiring boards.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Learn where you're happiest learning so that way you'll get it done.

If I'm ever on a hiring board, I'm going to get my kicks from asking, "So, how was Utah? You, uhh, didn't actually go to school in Utah? But your, OOOOOOH! One of them!"

Oh, you're a funny man, Mr Taylor.

So now that you've opened this worm can...

... how much does the NAME of the University count?

I mean, let's face it- some of them amount to $19.99 and two proofs of purchase for your "very own degree"....

 

[jtrain609]

I'm curious as to whether there are any people on JC now who are on any airline hiring boards.

There ARE folks on here who have been involved in the hiring process at air carriers, including a couple of Amflight training captains who would commonly do sim evals and technical portions of interviews.

 

[jtrain609]

The above state is true, but getting to the top doesn't always require working harder.

If the rungs on the ladder are a little closer together, it's easier to climb higher, faster. Personally I think using the 'minimum requirements' to reach that next rung doesn't mean you'll get the minimum return on that investment.

It's all about the cost of that opportunity. If I knew I could get hired at a major without a degree, a degree would be way further down my priority list.

It's like that movie 'Accepted' where Lewis Black is ranting about the BS they throw out at colleges these days. You can talk about being 'well-rounded' and a more developed individual all you want, but the real truth behind colleges these days is that they're selling tickets to a better job pool.

I think that's the difference between me and most folks. My degree prepared me to go to law school or graduate school, not pilot school. Without it I'd never get into any law or graduate program. It was social too, but I looked at college from a very academic perspective. College taught me how to think, how to study, how to argue, how to better myself and how to do it without a ton of help from anybody else. My program was kind of sink or swim.