Don't need a degree eh?
- Thread starter jtrain609
- Start date
tonyw
Well-Known Member
And that's based on 1980's number crunchers who have GenX's mentality of going to college, specializing in Lockheed's Management program and working at Lockheed for the next 40 years.
It just doesn't happen any more.
It's kinda' like a bridge program - a lot of hype, but when you look back you realize you learned a little and spent a bunch of money for that
Uh...I remember boomers saying things like Gen X'ers like myself are disloyal and they aren't willing to stick it out with their employers. And you know what, they're right! If you don't treat us right and compensate us well, we're out of there!
Also, here is a study from 2003 which shows the benefit of a college degree. I'd say a 60 percent gap in the median income of a college grad versus a high school grad is the real deal.
http://tsp.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=education_pays
Among full-time year-round workers between the ages of 25 and 34, white, black and Hispanic four-year college graduates earn an average of about 60% more than high school graduates in the same demographic groups.
Want proof? In this industry?
What does a regional captain top out at? What does a legacy carrier captain top out at?
What do legacy carriers want? A college degree.
Now, I'm not saying this to be a prick, I'm saying it because there is real value to a college education that can be shown in dollars and cents. The non-monetary value of one is much harder to demonstrate but it's there, too.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
I think you missed the point, which was to allow us to separate the worthy people from the troglodytes by seeing who has a degree and who doesn't.
That and to post all the badass crap we've done.
Ah hell. . .you're right.
Sorry guys, let the fun continue. Who's next? Am I up yet? I'm ready.
What follows is a generic mod comment:
Just like moving a thread that has no comedic value what-so-ever to the humor section?
Nevertheless, I enjoy the entertainment value that these consistent threads, about the same exact subjects provide. It shows the demographics of JC easier than a poll of if you have a 4 year degree or not.
All the 4 year degree kiddies claim they are the greatest, and all the non-4 year kiddies claim that they are the greatest. The usual pilot vs pilot rivalry continues.
I'm better than you - NO! I'm better than YOU! - NO!! I'M BETTER THAN YOU!!!!11
MFT1Air
Mfalme Soleimani
Ah, great minds (JTrain and you) think alike.
Kids? Kinda patronizing/condescending somewhat?
Let's see - Having left high school in 1971, I'm STILL not be inclined to call you a "kid." Where's your line drawn that makes them adults?
Your points made were quite substantive supported by your personal experiences. My opinion? I agree with you wholeheartedly.
. . .as I do agree with JTrain's perspective. . . without the perception of his being self-absorbed.
Gosh, people take "editorials" much too seriously. Make sure you vote!!!
sixoneseven
Well-Known Member
The bottom line in all walks of life.
It's all about who you know.
It's all about who you know.
Nevertheless, I enjoy the entertainment value that these consistent threads, about the same exact subjects provide. It shows the demographics of JC easier than a poll of if you have a 4 year degree or not.
Demographics???
From the front page of this website:
Doug Taylor said:
It appears to me that the target demographics, and the reason for this website in the first place, is noobie pilots and wanna-be pilots, along with professional pilots that are here to help the noobies along.
In my opinion (SteveC pilot, not SteveC moderator talking) the expressed purpose of this site is to allow the never-ending supply of up-and-coming pilots to ask the same questions (college, headset, PFJ/PFT, regional/freight, academy/FBO, etc. ad-nauseum) over and over again, and get civil and well-reasoned answers from the people that have gone before them. By definition this means that there will be a continuous supply of people asking the same questions that have been asked before, and will be asked again.
"Entertainment value..."???
If that's why you're here....go away.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Ah, great minds (JTrain and you) think alike.
Kids? Kinda patronizing/condescending somewhat?
Let's see - Having left high school in 1971, I'm STILL not be inclined to call you a "kid." Where's your line drawn that makes them adults?
Your points made were quite substantive supported by your personal experiences. My opinion? I agree with you wholeheartedly.
. . .as I do agree with JTrain's perspective. . . without the perception of his being self-absorbed.
Gosh, people take "editorials" much too seriously. Make sure you vote!!!
Don't get him wrong MFT, I think it's just a phrase. I constantly call people boss, hoss, bro, bossman, hossman, dude, hey you and kid on a fairly regular basis without putting too much thought into it. I've been known to call 50 year olds kids on accident
Just so you know,I dont have a 4 year degree or a two year degree or any degree.I dont claim to be the greatest.I am no better than anyone on here ,and i sure aint no kiddie.And i will say again.If you plan on going to a major airline,Get the degree. .....T.C.Ah hell. . .you're right.
Sorry guys, let the fun continue. Who's next? Am I up yet? I'm ready.
What follows is a generic mod comment:
Just like moving a thread that has no comedic value what-so-ever to the humor section?
Nevertheless, I enjoy the entertainment value that these consistent threads, about the same exact subjects provide. It shows the demographics of JC easier than a poll of if you have a 4 year degree or not.
The usual pilot vs pilot rivalry continues.
I'm better than you - NO! I'm better than YOU! - NO!! I'M BETTER THAN YOU!!!!11
Velocipede
New Member
Not necessarily true in this business. I papered the world with resumes. I got hired by the airline that I didn't know a soul at. All the other ones where I had personal recommendations didn't give me the time of day.
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
I can truly give a rats behind if someone were to have a degree or not. Question I have is can you pull your own weight? Luckily every job I've had was full of people that could handle theirs. I've seen people with degrees have the deer in the headlights look just as well those without degrees. I'm just tired of people acting like a degree is the holy grail. My wife got a degree and I didn't we are 1 year apart in age and she has never come close to the amount of money I make. In fact, I made more when we got married than she makes right now.
Percentage wise I would have to break it down like this, 60% who you know and 40% of what you can do.
I'm not all saying that a degree is a waste but it doesn't guarantee success nor is that piece of paper big enough to stop the rubber from meeting the road.
Percentage wise I would have to break it down like this, 60% who you know and 40% of what you can do.
I'm not all saying that a degree is a waste but it doesn't guarantee success nor is that piece of paper big enough to stop the rubber from meeting the road.
sixoneseven
Well-Known Member
You didn't know the right people, simple as that.
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
Yep, you need to get the degree...however you go about it is fine, as long as you get one.
Personally, I don't have one, and I'm often embarassed by that fact. I had a pretty bad experience in college, I went for 3 years, scraped by with my grades, and struggled to find something I enjoyed studying. I think it is important to go into college with something specific in mind that you would like to accomplish academically. I wandered around aimlessly from major to major. Also, like most, I was still a teenager. I lacked the maturity and self discpiline (and perhaps the intellectual capacity) to get the job done in most of the classes I attempted. Those instructors/professors were there to challenge you, not help you, and I wasn't up to the challenge. I definitely bit off more than I could chew with the academic "prestige" of the institution I chose to attend. That university chewed me up and spit me out, did nothing for my social life, and was overall a pretty miserable experience. Ultimately I used aviation as an outlet for my frustration at school. I flew every chance I got and worked at the FBO after school. I eventually earned my CFI and instruted summers and part time during my jr. year. I got a job offer from a regional at age 21 just prior to my senior year and I took it, abandoning my studies.
I'm not posting this story to garner sympathy, and I acknowledge that college is not 100% fun for anybody. There is a lot of hard work and struggling involved for just about anyone who earns a serious degree from an institution with a good reputation. Some people deal with those challenges better than others. I failed miserably, and it's one of the big regrets I have in my life.
I'm still taking classes and trying wrap up a bachelor's degree, but progress is slow and it's not easy to take classes and hold down a full time job, which is why I have a lot of respect for Kellwolf for pulling that off (one of the only people I know that has done it).
Personally, I don't have one, and I'm often embarassed by that fact. I had a pretty bad experience in college, I went for 3 years, scraped by with my grades, and struggled to find something I enjoyed studying. I think it is important to go into college with something specific in mind that you would like to accomplish academically. I wandered around aimlessly from major to major. Also, like most, I was still a teenager. I lacked the maturity and self discpiline (and perhaps the intellectual capacity) to get the job done in most of the classes I attempted. Those instructors/professors were there to challenge you, not help you, and I wasn't up to the challenge. I definitely bit off more than I could chew with the academic "prestige" of the institution I chose to attend. That university chewed me up and spit me out, did nothing for my social life, and was overall a pretty miserable experience. Ultimately I used aviation as an outlet for my frustration at school. I flew every chance I got and worked at the FBO after school. I eventually earned my CFI and instruted summers and part time during my jr. year. I got a job offer from a regional at age 21 just prior to my senior year and I took it, abandoning my studies.
I'm not posting this story to garner sympathy, and I acknowledge that college is not 100% fun for anybody. There is a lot of hard work and struggling involved for just about anyone who earns a serious degree from an institution with a good reputation. Some people deal with those challenges better than others. I failed miserably, and it's one of the big regrets I have in my life.
I'm still taking classes and trying wrap up a bachelor's degree, but progress is slow and it's not easy to take classes and hold down a full time job, which is why I have a lot of respect for Kellwolf for pulling that off (one of the only people I know that has done it).
Good luck to you Alchemy,Keep plugging at it.,,,T.C.
Ah hell. . .you're right.
Sorry guys, let the fun continue. Who's next? Am I up yet? I'm ready.
What follows is a generic mod comment:
Just like moving a thread that has no comedic value what-so-ever to the humor section?
Nevertheless, I enjoy the entertainment value that these consistent threads, about the same exact subjects provide. It shows the demographics of JC easier than a poll of if you have a 4 year degree or not.
The usual pilot vs pilot rivalry continues.
I'm better than you - NO! I'm better than YOU! - NO!! I'M BETTER THAN YOU!!!!11
Steve C is probably the most level-headed common sense oriented guy on JC. I really don't understand your mod comment.
Topics repeat themselves on JC. They have to. There are tons of revolving new members who want advice and who don't know that we already had 73 safety pilot conversations in the last year. Think back to your first week on JC - all that info out there and it was all new to you. You didn't know that to some, the topics were very, very, well worn.
Never mind we all know the search function sucks - more importantly, if we stopped discussing these "repeaters," what would be left? Politics?
The degree topic is important. New pilots really need to know that not having a degree could be a limiting factor for them - and they need to know in what ways it can be a limiting factor.
The manner this information was presented originally in this thread obviously leaves something to be desired. Either he was on a drunken rant or we need more discussions entitled "Perception and the Internet: How not to look like a know it all." I've hung out with Jtrain and sure enough like he says, the way he comes off on the internet is not like in real life. In my opinion though, that's little excuse - John's information would be better received by all if not laced with what could be perceived as self congratulatory conceit. I'm pretty sure I remember you (John) bagging on the manner in which Velo writes, saying his points would hold more weight if not for his writing style. (And I say that with love, brother - I'm just trying to help you out.)
Nonetheless, I think many of the "old salts" would agree that this is a topic that needs occasional recycling.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Personally, I think it is great that topics are repeated. Who knows when a member might have a new/different way of thinking or approaching a situation that could take the discussion in a whole new direction. That and I think the mods would prefer repeating topics rather than new members posting to topics several months old.
I, for one, absolutely prefer a new thread over necroposting! However, I would hope that someone would use the search function and still read those old threads. There is a great deal of information archived here, and by using "search" to find previous posts you may find the answer without having to make a new post. Or, you may find you have a whole NEW set of questions. In which case it's perfectly okay to link to or reference the old thread if you think it's necessary, without having to actually post to that old thread.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Would it be at all possible to collect ALL the significant college threads into one big sticky on the top of the forum?
That'd make it easier for those who don't use the search function to see the vast amount of information that has already been disseminated concerning the college topic.
That'd make it easier for those who don't use the search function to see the vast amount of information that has already been disseminated concerning the college topic.
That's really not practical. If we did that for each topic which has already had amounts of data posted, each topic would be sticky'd and we would have a forum filled with sticky's...
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
The purpose was not to pat myself on the back, Ian, it was to give these kids a point of reference. How would you like to go into a test not knowing what you're up against?
Teacher: We're giving you a test today
Student: Alright! Over what?
Teacher: I can't tell you that, explaining the material to you might make you feel like you've done less preparation than me, so I'm just going to give you the test.
Student: But how are we supposed to know what the answers are if we have no frame of reference.
Teacher: Well I gave the answers to some of your class mates
Student: But, that's BS! They might know more than me because I didn't get the opportunity to have all the cards on the table!
Teacher: Deal with it, and good luck!
Ian to be completely honest my resume isn't that impressive, and if people think that it's really all that great then they need some SERIOUS introspection into their own career. When I'm up against guys like you, Seggy, FlyChicaga, Doug, Fly4Pay and all these other cats that have WAY more experience than I do, I shudder to think of how an interview would go down with me, Segs and Matt all in an interview at once. Simply put I wouldn't be invited to said interview, and if I was I'd be laughed out the door. How am I supposed to compete with a guy that has time in the military flying helicopters for thousands of hours and has some as an aircraft commander? I can't, simply put And THAT sir drives ME to better myself because as soon as I realize I'm behind the power curve, it gives me pause to realize that if I don't get on the ball I'm going to be left out in the cold.