Don't be this guy...
- Thread starter Tram
- Start date
And that's good. It's an available service. And like you say, it comes with limitations and terms, which you understand. Using the service is purely technique.....neither right nor wrong to do so.
For me, I see far more value for using it while enroute with ARTCC, as they're not usually slammed busy, and if you have anything go wrong, you're already talking with ATC. Whereas try requesting it at peak time with PHX, when you're only planning on going underneath their airspace shelf, or around it, but never inside it, and its a fair chance you'll get an annoyed "unable at this time. Remain clear of Class B airspace, frequency change approved." Conversely, In and around other TRACONs, it may be the opposite at various times. It all just depends.
Like stated, it's an available service, but one that is lowest priority for ATC. Your mileage may vary.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
That makes sense. You're in a patten of sorts, working a particular area as well as hanging out near a traffic or pattern area, so likely easier for ATC to see something approaching your area, workload permitting, and get a point-out to you or for other traffic. I can see its usefulness there.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Flight following has the following tangible benefits for me:
- Immediate contact with someone on the ground if something goes sideways.
- A source of emergency contact if SAR dispatch is required.
- A potential resource that I can use if I need information, weather advisories, or a helpful vector if I pull a stupid.
- VFR traffic advisories on a workload-permitting basis. (You don't just stop watching for traffic because you're receiving traffic advisories, right?)
- Positive separation from IFR traffic.
- An increased probability of a friendly "Hey bud, where are you going?" in my ear if I pull a stupid and am about to fly through airspace I shouldn't.
- Potential awareness of pop-up TFRs such as law-enforcement TFRs, and
- A degree of traffic separation in active MOAs, if I'm talking with the controlling agency.
None of this is a solid guarantee, of course, but it's a really nice toolkit to have in your back pocket. Plus, ATC knows who you are, where you are, and has a verified altitude on you ... so they don't have to worry as much about that unverified target plodding across the departure corridor.
I dunno. I'll sure take it if I can get it!
-Fox
uncreative
Well-Known Member
I like it for the additional SA it provides. Do I stake my life on it and go heads down in VMC? Absolutely not. However, my flying is limited to GA stuff, mostly in a training situation, so it's a different thing than most of you guys in fancy turbine powered flying machines.
And that's cool. Like I said, I can see all those things for flight following from an ARTCC. Really good stuff to have, and most ARTCCs aren't insanely busy. Maybe even a lower workload TRACON, but using under or around many terminal areas are the only places I really don't use it for the mentioned reasons.
Don't get me wrong, it's a service and is beneficial in certain times/places, for the reasons you cite. Agree.
Agree also. If it works and helps you out for the times you need it, by all means take advantage of it.
Thats cool. VFR transition on the published routes in the Class B isn't generally any problem in my area...it's why those routes exist, for VFR funneling. Its moreso trying to get flight following when outside-but near the airspace or under the shelf, especially during peak times, with no intention of entering the actual airspace. I can see where that....for ATC....can become unneeded workload for them during certain times.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
I'm mostly with you, but ... not to belabor the point, but frankly, most of my time with flight following has been with approach, rather than center, and much of it has been within 300nm of my home airport. I have a feeling that you must deal with a particularly busy or difficult set of controllers in the PHX area... I haven't flown much there.
Elsewhere controllers seem happy to have you identified as long as you're not a toolbag.
-Fox
And it indeed may just be an issue locally to here, but one that other TRACONs don't face. That's entirely possible.
Agreed that the biggest deal is not being a tool and being the least amount of pain in the butt (workload) to the controller as possible; being directly related to the quality/quantity of service received from ATC in the flight following regard.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
I almost always request it in the Bay Area. Thus far, I have only been denied once, though technically I asked for it and ATC was busy never got back to me in a span of a few minutes so I just didn't call back. You know, rather than throwing a tantrum with NorCal.
Traffic alerts and situation awareness from monitoring help a lot, and I don't like skirting around all the airspace, I prefer to just fly thru it all which is easiest just staying up with ATC the whole time. If I don't get flight following, I'm usually handed off from tower to tower to NorCal anyway. Plus as @Acrofox mentioned, it has saved me a few times when I was about to clip a corner of Bravo.
I mean, at PAO for example, the contract CFIs usually ask for about $80/hr so...I think the full time guys clear that 35k/year ceiling by a wide margin. No shortage of people with more money than they know what to do with and a lot of free time out here.
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NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Flight following through a bravo is much easier to accommodate if you call the sector not working the final for your initial radar id etc. if you're already tagged up with all the info and on course, even if super busy I can take you no prob. I'll deny it though if I'm your initial call because getting all the info, typing it in, giving you a squawk etc just takes too much time. I know there are some places that seem to just deny all class b clearances, although here in NY we try to be as accommodating as we can.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
At the edges of the DC SFRA, flight following is good to have because there is so much traffic ingress/egress and both have to talk to Approach at some point, who are handling the DC airspace itself, plus DCA, IAD and BWI. Occasionally, you also get ADW on Guard griping at someone. There's a lot to listen to. I've never asked the opinion of a controller but I'm pretty sure they want us to ask for it.
There are some well-traveled corridors (the VFR flyway between VPONX and VPOOP, for example) that get pretty squirelly when the weather is good, and having that extra set of eyes is helpful. If you're not too greedy, you can often get cleared through the lower part of the BWI bravo to get through there and being on flight following already makes that a heck of a lot easier.
Our circumstances are kind of unique out here, though.
There are some well-traveled corridors (the VFR flyway between VPONX and VPOOP, for example) that get pretty squirelly when the weather is good, and having that extra set of eyes is helpful. If you're not too greedy, you can often get cleared through the lower part of the BWI bravo to get through there and being on flight following already makes that a heck of a lot easier.
Our circumstances are kind of unique out here, though.
Jordan93
Well-Known Member
It's also all about how you ask on the radio for flight following. If you sound like a rookie on the radio and you congest the frequency and block other people they'll deny you sometimes. A guy before me did this and he was denied. When I keyed up, I was concise and to the point and I was given flight following.
ozziecat35
4 out of 5 great lakes prefer Michigan.
I avail myself of it when I'm flying survey. I have 2 ipads and a laptop to mange (along with both cameras). Being fully aware the burden is on me to provide my own separation, we have routes then come up next to and inside of C and B airspaces. Even If I'm not inside the Charlie, I figure it's only neighborly for me to let them to know what the target squawking 1200 is doing 15 SW of the primary field at 5,500 MSL. It's cheap insurance for re-positioning flights as well. If they can get me, great, if not, no biggie.
AAPalmTree
Well-Known Member
A150K
Well-Known Member
*ahem* Las Vegas *ahem*
