Dont Attend ATP
- Thread starter tiredofshoveling
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meyers9163
Well-Known Member
But we forget if you say anything negative about ATP you are the anti christ.
MikeOH58
Well-Known Member
ehh whatever...No point in responding to this "3 engine" again. Nothing worse than a private pilot in training who thinks he has a job and a sense of entitlement.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Who knows bro.... its why I am hesitant to post in the ATP section. if you have anything negative to say you get someone who just started flying 90 days ago telling you that you know nothing. Or you have someone who has been up in JAX with the "big wiggs" of ATP who manipulate the regulations telling you that you know nothing. Amazing how that happens.
You know the funny part of looking back. I remember Phil saying during our time in Jax about the airlines and eating in the cockpit. "If you have a drink or food in the airlines plane and you leave #### in the cockpit you can bet you will lose your job, that's multi million dollar equipment and they dont want you making it a trash can." Basically he want ranting on how CFI's were leaving oil cans in the planes and stuff and trying to compare it to the airlines. Well I can not remember the number of times I've walked into a flight deck and had news papers all over, pop cans or water bottles. And let alone all the crums on the floors. But according to Phil that doesnt happen and you get fired for it. Oh how they are removed from the now in the 121 world.
Now I'm sure Turbomax will come on here and tell me I dont know what I'm talking about Phil never would have said such a thing. Except he wasnt there and this is one of the many BS things that came out of that guys mouth. Or the good ole you better always be on time because pilots are never late, and if you are late you'll get fired.... The times I've walked to a plane already in less then 6 months and had a CA show up late. Yup they still have their jobs and rightfully should! Oh the good ole TWA days.
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
IMO theres nothing worse then responding to someone who has NEVER been through the WHOLE accelerated program yet they think its the worse thing on earth. Im not saying one way is better or worse. I gave over a 1000 hours dual given at both FBO's and accelerated schools and I would recommend an accelerated schools if I was to recommend one. Some instructors disagree and I seen some students that the slower pace was better, and some the faster pace was better.
It drives me nuts when people come on here and say "this isn't the best way" or "this is the best way" because "I went this way and Im a RJ pilot". Both schools have the same amount of hours!!
I know I wouldve missed out on my dream corporate job had I went to a FBO for training. Just a bit of luck on my part making 3 times as much as Regional airline pilots. But thats just me.
This argument is senseless... If its better for you to retain information learning one or two days a week, That does not mean its better for me to learn that method.
As far as ATP, I dont recommend then to anybody anybody anymore because of their price. Id do one of the other accelerated sponsors here at JC if I had to go at it again.
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Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
It dont bother me that you guys post your negative exeriance about a school... It bothers me when you guys here are saying theres only one way to go about it and ATP is as worthless as it gets. I cant stand when I see people tell me that ATP is the only way to go either. I remember when you was going through training you would post about ATP too just like these other new ATP guys are now... maybe you should read some of your post history just for fun?
Ralgha
Well-Known Member
Well, I could argue that. I know how the ATP examiners work. Yeah, you hit all the requirements of each rating, but it's hardly a test. ATP knows exactly, word for word, what each examiner looks for. It's pretty much not possible to have it handed to you on a better platter (legally).
Why not?
The training is not just as good. Overall, the pilots I get who came the slow route do a better job than those who took the fast track. Of course there are exceptions, that's why they're called exceptions.
Reason for a grain of salt right there.
tiredofshoveling
Well-Known Member
Let me be clear, I have never and will never knock anyone for going to ATP. I am knocking the school itself. Primarily the management. It is a money making machine for them. That bubble will be coming to end. At my location they pushed people too hard particularly if you are having a hard time. The more people they wash out the more money they end up making off of them. I never read their contract, there was no point they basically can do whatever they want to you for any reason. If you look at the chief pilot cross-eyed they can kick you out. They then will issue a refund that will look something like this
40 hours of ftd @ $500 per = 20000
bunch of fees and what not = 10000
left over = 30 grand beat it
nothing to show for it
Be Careful, There are other schools out there will more sensible pay structures and individual quality instruction. After the instrument phase at ATP you basically get no more instruction.
TOS
40 hours of ftd @ $500 per = 20000
bunch of fees and what not = 10000
left over = 30 grand beat it
nothing to show for it
Be Careful, There are other schools out there will more sensible pay structures and individual quality instruction. After the instrument phase at ATP you basically get no more instruction.
TOS
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
I dont think anyone is saying there's ONLY one way in which you can train. However the product as an over all product can be thought of by many as subpar. However you are right as I went through CFI school I was very pleased. There are certain RATINGS I highly recommend ATP for. I highly recommend people doing their Atp, CMEL add on, MEI/CFII and if they had CFI school doing the inclusive CFI program.
However I do not really find the product of the 90 day program as very quality. I saw too many things I did not think were anything better then subpar. That's all. Anyone who comes on and ask about other programs I highly recommend atp. Anyone who can and has time to do training I recommend a FBO route. If there's a career changer who has the money and wants to blow it, i might recommend the 90 day program. It just depends on the situation.
MikeOH58
Well-Known Member
My response is to the attitude of 3 engine, and a lot of other private pilots at day 40 in ATP's program. Granted you get some punk kids at FBO's, but i've seen far more private pilots in training with this entitlement come out of ATP and the likes lately.
And no, i've never been through the WHOLE program. In fact, never been through any of the program. Did all of my ratings for half the cost, and paid for 4.3 hours of multi engine time. The rest, I was paid for...And I could also say, I don't think i'd ever have landed my dream corporate job, paying nearly 2.5 times my peers at the regionals, if I did go to ATP. Works both ways buddy.
stillageek
Well-Known Member
Ummm proper brief on the checkride? It's called the PTS. If you can't make it through ATP 90 day course good luck with airline ground school. The same fire hose training at ATP is the same fire hose training at an airline. My training at Eagle was a little harder for me as I was a self paced student (I finished the private and career in 10 months..so I wasn't tooo self paced...worked a 40 hour a week job).
I'm not saying ATP is perfect. But if you are an adult (not just 18+) and 100% research and understand what you are getting in to...ATP is just fine.
3enginejock
Well-Known Member
My attidude? sorry maybe I did get a little heated in my last post...
My point is I dont like being told that I am some how less of a pilot simply because im going through a 90 day program. That is bullcrap and you know it.
ATP may not be the best school in the world but it is certainly not as bad as people on here make it out to be.
The fact that you didnt even attend ATP yet you knock it is even worse. If you did not go to the school you have little room to talk.
Those that did and had bad experiances sure, post your thoughts. But knock the instructors and the school, dont post saying the pilots that come out of ATP are horrible.
The examiners are fair, I studied my ass off for my checkrides and to have someone like you come here and diminish my success is insulting.
Again, if you dont like ATP the answer is simple, dont go. If you had a bad experiance im sorry for you but dont take it out on current students or people who went to got their ratings at ATP.
You are right about ATP. They are a pilot shop who treat their customers like crap. Overall, I thought it was a better time than a local FBO, but absolutely no ground. Their selling point is the ME time, and of all the places I looked before I went I couldnt find a better deal.
But you are right, considering the customers are what drive and sustain ATP as a company, they treat you like crap.
But you are right, considering the customers are what drive and sustain ATP as a company, they treat you like crap.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
Right now there is no reason to go to ATP. Go rush through your 90 day program, get 2 or 3 checkride busts if you're not careful/ready so you can then... look for a job when very few regionals are hiring 250 hour wonders? Or you can go at your own pace, maybe take two months longer but come out with no checkride busts (maybe) and still be in the same situation -- looking for a job.
I went throuh ATP -- I found the instruction was adequete. I felt prepared for my checkrides, even the initial CFI checkride. I just dont think the program is worth it now. It wouldn't even be worth it at the price I paid, which is a lot less than what it costs now.
I went throuh ATP -- I found the instruction was adequete. I felt prepared for my checkrides, even the initial CFI checkride. I just dont think the program is worth it now. It wouldn't even be worth it at the price I paid, which is a lot less than what it costs now.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Now I am not trying to poke fingers at anyone here. But you say you did the self pace program. I am wondering how many hours you got hired at AE with? The reason is because I would almost argue if you were a 200 hour pilot a lot of it could be that reason right there. There is NOTHING about a 121 training program that is insane and or tougher then college. Heck I would beg to say college was harder then 121 ground school. I know this is also echoed with many buddies at RAH, ASA, Skywest and also AE. Had quite a few buddies who were hired at AE. Never once did anyone say fire hose. Heck Comair nearly has a 12 week program. Needless to say I think this is the classic example about the fast pace programs. There's nothing in the 121 world in which ground school should be nearly impossible. You study and do your job 121 ground is really not that difficult. In the end it comes down to either A) you can fly or B) you cannot fly. In the end that's all there is about the 121 world and passing ground/simulator in my oppinion. Needless to say no one in my 20 failed out. All of them passed and none of which were 90 day wonders.
3green
Well-Known Member
Meyers is right, there was no fire hose at the schoolhouse in DFW. ATP if not anything is good at getting people in their front door. Nice advertisement with an RJ on it and +400 hired! says it all. Good luck to anyone going to any accellerated program right now, with the way the industry is there isn't anything going fast except furloughs, cutbacks and when your gonna pay that loan back.
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BillH
New Member
Why get so worked up over ideology?
Hey Listen, you pick the school that fits your style and go for it. Once your sitting in the right seat of what ever you wanted to fly, none of that crap matters. If some one can't cut it, they will not become career pilots and they go back to their office job.
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Hey Listen, you pick the school that fits your style and go for it. Once your sitting in the right seat of what ever you wanted to fly, none of that crap matters. If some one can't cut it, they will not become career pilots and they go back to their office job.
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