Pulled this from another. Thought some ppl might be interested.
This was posted on our union discussion forum. I don't know the
> validity of the information.
>
> __________________________________________
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I had a one hour conversation with Tim Cheney yesterday and would like
> to shed some light on what happened to cause the over flight of their
> destination, MSP.
>
> Before I begin with details, I wanted to say right up front that
> although there are many events that helped to cause this, Tim takes
> full responsibility and places no blame on anyone but himself. He is
> very humbled by what has happened and fully understands that as
> captain, he was responsible for the a/c, crew and passengers. That
> said, he wanted me to know how it all happened. Secondly, he has the
> full support of his neighbors in Gig Harbor , WA , as well has his
> church parishioners. One of his neighbors wrote a letter to the Star &
> Tribune in Minneapolis saying how great a family the Cheney's were, I
> agree.
>
> On their flight from San Diego to Minneapolis , after passing Denver ,
> the f/a called the cockpit to let them know Tim's crew meal was ready.
> Tim was the "flying pilot" on this leg, so he told his F/O that when
> the f/a brings the meal up, he will step back to use the restroom.
> When Tim returned, the F/A left the cockpit and he began to eat his
> crew meal. When a pilot leaves to use the restroom, it is customary
> for the other pilot to brief him on his return on "any changes", such
> as altitude, heading, course changes or atc center frequency changes,
> etc. In this instance, nothing was said....even though the f/o had
> received a frequency change. The problem that occurred was that the f/
> o never got a response on the new frequency....it was not the correct
> frequency....it was a Winnipeg Canada Center Freq.
>
> Now, Denver Center is trying to get a hold of them because they never
> checked in, because the f/o had dialed in the wrong freq......that is
> who called them so many times....but, then there was a shift change at
> Denver Center and no one briefed the new controller that there was a
> NORDO A/C (non communications) in their airspace....so, in actuality,
> atc basically "lost" this a/c.....see Wall Street Journal article below.
>
> Tim told me he heard atc chatter on the speaker and so never thought
> they were out of radio range.....but, of course, they were hearing
> pilots talk on Winnipeg Center . For non-pilots.....when we don’t hear
> anything for a long while...we ask atc if they are still
> there....sometimes they are and sometimes you are out of their area
> and need to find a new frequency. With this chatter going on, there
> was no concern that they were not being controlled.
>
> Then Tim told the f/o that the new bidding system was horrible and
> that his November schedule was not what he hoped for. He mentioned
> that his son was going into the Army in Dec. and he wanted certain
> days off so he could see him off.....the f/o said he could help him,
> he knew more about the new bidding system. Tim got his lap top out and
> put it on his left leg and showed the f/o how he bid. He told me he
> had his lap top out for maybe 2 minutes. Then the f/o said that he
> would show him how to do it on his laptop. He had his laptop out
> maximum of 5 minutes.
>
> Let's also add the 100 kt tail wind that they had to the discussion,
> not helping matters.
>
> The f/a's called the cockpit on the interphone(no they did not kick
> the door, no, no one was sleeping, no, no one was fighting) and asked
> when they will get there. They looked at their nav screens and were
> directly over MSP. Because they had their screens set on the max, 320
> kt setting, when the f/o called on the frequency, which of course was
> Winnipeg Center , he saw Eau Claire and Duluth on his screen. They
> asked where they were and the f/o told them over Eau Claire , which
> was not even close, but MSP had disappeared from the screen even
> though they were right over the city.
>
> They were, as you all know, vectored all over the sky to determine if
> they had control of the a/c and Tim kept telling the f/o to tell them
> they have control they want to land at MSP, etc. They landed with
> 11,000 pounds of fuel (no they did not come in on fumes, but had 2
> hours in an A320) and not but 15 minutes past schedule, even though
> they left San Diego 35 minutes late due to an atc flow restriction.
>
> In the jet-way awaiting them were FBI and every other authority you
> can imagine.
>
> Aftermath and tidbits:
>
> Although these pilots filed an NASAP Report, which was designed to
> have pilots tell the truth about events, so the FAA could learn from
> them, they had their licenses revoked by the ATL F.A.A. even before
> they came out of their meeting with NTSB and NASAP meetings.
>
> ATL FAA is really big on this new regulation which will allow pilots
> to take a short nap in flight so they will be rested for the
> approach...they were insistent that they were sleeping.
>
> MSP FAA, Vance (do not know last name) was the person who handed Tim
> his revocation letter(which was leaked to the entire world by the ATL
> FAA). Tim said Vance had tears in his eyes and walked away, said
> nothing. It was later learned that the entire MSP FAA office did not
> agree at all with revoking their pilot's licenses, but had no
> jurisdiction over the matter, since ATL FAA had control because of
> Delta.
>
> The pilots have been to Wash. D.C., ATL and MSP for several meetings.
> In ATL, they met with the chief pilots and Tim said they could not
> have been nicer. They are working to resolve this, not to try and fire
> them. But of course, they will have to get their license back for
> Delta to consider allowing them to continue flying. The appeal has
> been files for the FAA to reinstate their licenses or to settle on
> some form of punishment, etc.
>
> When Tim and his wife were in MSP for a meeting with the NTSB, they
> happen to be staying at the same hotel as the NTSB was. The next
> morning in the lobby, the NTSB official came over to Tim and said he
> did not know why they even called them in for this event. There was no
> safety issue. Also, MSP Center informed Delta that there never was a
> problem and no aircraft were near their plane. Even though no radio
> communications, they had been followed and separated.
>
> Yes, the company tried to contact them on ACARS, but the 320 does not
> have a chime...it has a 30 second light which then extinguishes.
> Tim always has 121.5 tuned, but as we all know as pilots, it can get
> very noisy at times and we turn it down and sometimes forget to turn
> it back on. He told me this may have been the case.
>
> So there were so many factors which helped to cause this episode.
> Anyone would have likely prevented it.....properly checking in on the
> new frequency would have been the first one.....
>
> A note about laptops.....in NWA's A.O.M (I think it stands for
> airman's operation manual), it does not say we can't use a laptop,
> however in Delta's A.O.M., it does, we are transitioning now and we
> actually have pages from both airlines. When our union showed this to
> the attorney's, they could not believe the confusion put on our pilot
> group. But, D.C. F.A.A. put out a new possible ruling which will
> disallow all laptops......so stupid, don't they know Jet Blue has
> laptops on every aircraft and soon all airliners will for the
> electronic Jepp charts.
>
> These are the facts and again, Tim said he feels very bad for the
> company and the pilots and is hoping for a positive outcome on their
> appeal. With 24 years at NWA, 21,000 blemish free hours, it would be a
> mistake to ruin his career over this in my opinion.
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> Mike
> F.A.A. Fails to brief new controller on duty (WSJ Article)
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