Delta Pilots--No Pay raise till 2009?

Re: 100 retirees tonight?

LOL

Yeah, I think I will accept a position that requires me to claw my way up to middle management. That used to be in a commercial some time ago. Maybe for Monster.com?
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

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Maybe it's just me...but I don't know anybody that has a job that lets them "be home for baseball games" and also fly at their leisure "whenever and wherever they want".

Just about all of the people I know with good paying "corporate" type desk jobs are nowhere near able to be home for baseball games. The days of the 9-5 don't seem to exist anymore. When I was working I left my apartment at around 7AM and usually didn't get back until around 7-7:30PM on a typical day. A busy day meant around 9PM. Some weeks required Saturday work too. Let's not even mention the company cell phone which never stopped ringing whether I was at work or not!

The people I know who have those nice cushy schedules to get home early don't make near enough to afford to fly. Especially with a family and a mortgage.

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And don't forget business travel, bringing work home, and the constant stress of what needs to be done tomorrow (or yesterday). I often have the feeling that many of the people that worry, fret and/or complain about the pilot lifestyle have never had a "real" corporate job. Just like it's not some shangri-la to fly for the airlines, working a "real" job is no piece of cake.

MF
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

[ QUOTE ]
And don't forget business travel, bringing work home, and the constant stress of what needs to be done tomorrow (or yesterday). I often have the feeling that many of the people that worry, fret and/or complain about the pilot lifestyle have never had a "real" corporate job. Just like it's not some shangri-la to fly for the airlines, working a "real" job is no piece of cake.

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One of the attractions of an aviation career to me is that when I am home, work is over.

You aren't thinking about the damn TPS cover sheet redesign that your boss wants you to use starting next week, and oh, crap, he wants that stupid TPS report by Monday at 9:00 AM and that means you'll have to be in on Sunday to finish up the stupid report. And then where the hell is the PDF of the new TPS cover sheet because you don't want to hear about the freaking cover sheet again even though it doesn't mean jack squat to the report.

And why the hell am I putting all this effort into the stupid TPS reports anyway, since nobody gives a damn about them and they delete them when they get them in their email? Except for some clueless idiots who still insist on getting them via interoffice mail so that they can throw them on their desk and then lose them and have their assistants bug me for new copies since they lost them.

It will be nice to say, ah.....that four day trip with exciting layovers in Podunk, IA and Armpitsville, TX sucked big time but now it's all over and I don't have to worry about work for a few days.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And don't forget business travel, bringing work home, and the constant stress of what needs to be done tomorrow (or yesterday). I often have the feeling that many of the people that worry, fret and/or complain about the pilot lifestyle have never had a "real" corporate job. Just like it's not some shangri-la to fly for the airlines, working a "real" job is no piece of cake.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the attractions of an aviation career to me is that when I am home, work is over.

You aren't thinking about the damn TPS cover sheet redesign that your boss wants you to use starting next week, and oh, crap, he wants that stupid TPS report by Monday at 9:00 AM and that means you'll have to be in on Sunday to finish up the stupid report. And then where the hell is the PDF of the new TPS cover sheet because you don't want to hear about the freaking cover sheet again even though it doesn't mean jack squat to the report.

And why the hell am I putting all this effort into the stupid TPS reports anyway, since nobody gives a damn about them and they delete them when they get them in their email? Except for some clueless idiots who still insist on getting them via interoffice mail so that they can throw them on their desk and then lose them and have their assistants bug me for new copies since they lost them.

It will be nice to say, ah.....that four day trip with exciting layovers in Podunk, IA and Armpitsville, TX sucked big time but now it's all over and I don't have to worry about work for a few days.

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Sounds like work is being taken a little too seriously. I am considered successful at what I do, but when I go home work does not follow. My mentality towards work is that I can only do what I can and when I do what I can it is only on company time "in the workplace". I wish my boss, or future bosses, would step out of bounds by saying or implying do work at home and not compensating me.
To me, work is like life in a sense that it is what you make of it.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

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Try reading my post in it's entirety before you get your panties in a bunch about owing anyone anything.

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Went back and re-read it just to make sure. Yeah, I think I got it.

Look, by definition, a job cedes a huge amount of responsibility for your future to someone else.

Before I came into this business most of the guys I knew were TWA pilots. The reason I got to know them was through their side jobs that they kept for when they were furloughed. The history of the airline business is little or no profits, bankrupt/extinct carriers, furloughs, etc. Those were some huge rose-colored glasses we got the last 10-15 years. When I tried to tell my copilots that things could possibly go south they laughed at me. When I told my family that our last contract would get opened for concessions before it expired they thought I was a pessimist. And I'm not compaining because I had it a lot better than most and certainly better than most of my peers.

Even if you go find your middle-management job it won't be secure. I don't care if the company has been around for 100 years. In fact if it has I'll bet you a lot of money it won't be there by the end of your career.

But I wish you all the best. I hope everybody here makes good choices, gets lucky and has a great career. And I can tell you from experience, it's better to be lucky than good.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

No, you didn't get it. You made a smart remark about someone owing me a job. I clearly made the statement that I have no problem working for what I have or putting in my time like everyone else. You just decided that I was a young punk that is waiting around for someone to hand me the job of my dreams.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

Ok, IowaPilot, I think that's enough defense. I've come to learn that Flyover is pretty gracious, especially if you call him on something. One thing to keep in mind is that he (flyover) has more experience (aviation and just plain life) in his pinky than you do in your whole body. Maybe something to consider, cause I think I'm sensing some of that smartass know-it-all attitude here.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

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I've come to learn that Flyover is pretty gracious, especially if you call him on something. One thing to keep in mind is that he (flyover) has more experience (aviation and just plain life) in his pinky than you do in your whole body.

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Agreed. He can be a real smart ass and very sarcastic but he's cool. Even if he can't find his glasses and they're right on top of his head.
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Go ahead, Flyover, you can verbally smack me for that one.
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Re: 100 retirees tonight?

Well that is certainly not something I am trying to exhibit here. It just pisses me off when someone shows up and labels me as something that I had just explained that I am not. And really, whatever. It doesn't matter what he or anyone else thinks quite honestly. Only I know what is best for me and that goes for everyone in here.

One bad thing about forums is the loss of intentions through translation. My fuse is short as it is right now, and unfortunately it isn't taking much to get me going lately. I don't deny that flyover is more experienced in aviation than myself. Hell, that's not saying much, really. I started to write a post this morning apologizing for offending anyone with my post last night, because I knew it could be taken as a personal attack to many people who are working their butt off right now to get where they want to go in aviation, but I erased it because I feel like I don't need to apologize for the way I feel. I definitely won't just stand by and take a raking over the coals from someone about something that I clearly explained myself on, or they possibly misread just because they are more "experienced" than myself.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

Hey I'm grumpy too. Just finishing up a three day crash diet (trying to get ready for an interview, need to fit into my suit). I've been working with a lot of people who were in denial about how fragile this industry or their company was. So this is a message I've been preaching for a long time.

I appreciate the frustration that's out there right now. I've been trying to be the optimist on this forum. I think this shakeout will be ultimately good for the industry. It doesn't matter anyway because it was inevitable after deregulation. I know people who are working for their second or third failing airline. We tend to forget Pan Am, TWA, Braniff, Frontier, Eastern and others who have dissapeared leaving ruined careers behind. These were great airlines, pioneering airlines. The message is it is a tough business and there are no guarantees. Approach it at your own risk.

I think the only reason to do this business is because you like to fly airplanes. But to get a 25 or 30 year career out of one company is very, very iffy. I think you've said all that in your posts, so maybe this is just thinking out loud for both of us.

Peace.

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Re: 100 retirees tonight?

[ QUOTE ]
. Even if he can't find his glasses and they're right on top of his head.

Go ahead, Flyover, you can verbally smack me for that one.
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Actually I've taken to just leaving them on the end of my nose. Now that's really pathetic. Next will be the string. But my medical is still unrestricted, go figure.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

There is no industry you can go to, working for somebody else, that can guarantee you a job, or a pay level, or security for a career.

Yes there is. It's called the Navy, Marines, Air Force, Army, and Coast Guard.

(Sorry
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Re: 100 retirees tonight?

SA Brian.

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Get a clue. There is no industry you can go to, working for somebody else, that can guarantee you a job, or a pay level, or security for a career. The closest thing to it might be the government.


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Most people would call the military part of the government.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

[ QUOTE ]
SA Brian.

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Get a clue. There is no industry you can go to, working for somebody else, that can guarantee you a job, or a pay level, or security for a career. The closest thing to it might be the government.


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Most people would call the military part of the government.

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And even the military is no guarantee. Post Desert Storm (as was post WW II, Vietnam, etc) there was a large drawdown, or Reduction In Force (RIF) that put many military members out on the street, since it was needed to draw down the force structure.

There's no real guarantees anywhere.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

[ QUOTE ]
And even the military is no guarantee. Post Desert Storm (as was post WW II, Vietnam, etc) there was a large drawdown, or Reduction In Force (RIF) that put many military members out on the street, since it was needed to draw down the force structure.


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Furloughs happen in the military too.

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There's no real guarantees anywhere.


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As I've said many times, I was the DEFINITION of 'safe' (as far as job security) on 9/10/01. I had over 1000 people junior to me, hiring was brisk....... Life was good. By the end of the next day it was a very different story.

No guarantees. Anywhere.



BTW the actual number of retirees was 230, with 222 of those being early-outs.
 
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