Delta Pilots--No Pay raise till 2009?

bap327

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ATLANTA - Delta Air Lines pilots handed the struggling airline a huge victory Thursday in its effort to avoid bankruptcy, agreeing to slash their salaries by more than $1 billion annually and forgo pay raises through 2009.

The pilot's union announced results of a 10-day vote by the Atlanta-based airline's 7,000 pilots, who approved the plan with 79 percent of the vote.

Union leaders reached a tentative agreement with Delta after 15 months of negotiations. The five-year contract calls for a 32.5 percent pay cut and becomes effective Dec. 1.

In return, the pilots get options to buy up to 15 percent of the company's stock.

"Our airline has been managed to the brink of bankruptcy and the Delta pilots had to decide between two bad choices," said John Malone, chairman of the pilots union's executive council. "They chose the lesser of two evils."

Delta pilots are currently among the highest-paid in the nation with salaries averaging between $100,000 and $300,000 a year.

About 91 percent of eligible pilots cast ballots by phone and the Internet over the past 10 days. A simple majority was needed to ratify the agreement. The voting ended at noon Thursday.

News of the contract's ratification sent shares of Delta Air Lines Inc. surging nearly 6 percent, or 36 cents, in late trading. The shares ended the regular session 21 cents higher, at $6.29, on the New York Stock Exchange.

Delta has lost more than $6 billion since early 2001, during which time it has eliminated 16,000 jobs and cut the pay of other employees, including its executives. Last month, the airline reported a $651 million loss in the third-quarter.

In a memo to pilots Thursday, Delta CEO Gerald Grinstein acknowledged employees' sacrifices. He said those efforts "represent a Herculean effort to control our own destiny _ a feat that is often attempted but seldom attained in our industry."

"There are no winners at this point," Grinstein wrote. "There are only people caught in the grips of a permanently changing industry and a demanding marketplace who are trying very hard, together and in good faith, to preserve careers and proud professions while helping their company survive, provide jobs and eventually grow profitably."

Analysts said the pilot concessions were vital if Delta hopes to stay out of bankruptcy court.

"It gives them a chance to fight another day," said Ray Neidl, an airline industry analyst with Calyon Securities Inc. in New York. "It's what they needed to continue their restructuring for survival."

The agreement also includes changes to work rules to increase the efficiency of pilot scheduling, a freeze on the pilots' retirement benefits plan and higher premiums on their medical insurance.

"We have bought Delta time to continue restructuring outside of the courts," Malone said. "It is now up to management to successfully execute a viable business plan."

The company said it needed the wage concessions to stay afloat. But company officials have warned that the agreement still may not be enough to avoid bankruptcy.

Delta also must convince the holders of its $20.6 billion in debt to restructure the repayment terms for all the pieces of its transformation puzzle to fall into place.

Neidl said Thursday's vote should help.

"I think the rest of the pieces, between now and the end of the month, should start falling together," he said. "This was the web that holds it all together."
 
None until 2009, but anyone with less than 12 years of service gets the yearly 'raise' of sorts until the 12-year point.
 
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"There are no winners at this point," Grinstein wrote.

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"No" winners? What sort of bonus will Grinchstein and other execs get for getting the pilots to cough up?

There are never "no winners" when MBAs are involved.
 
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"No" winners? What sort of bonus will Grinchstein and other execs get for getting the pilots to cough up?

There are never "no winners" when MBAs are involved.

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It's easy to be cynical. I don't think Grinstein is in it for the money at this point. Grinstein is more old school, keeps score in a different way. He already is "low paid:" compared to any other airline exec right now. Just took the rest of the year off pay wise.

If he gets Delta out the other side of this he'll have earned a bonus.

And yes I agree he is one of the architects that helped get Delta into this mess.
 
I just saw something in today's Wall Street Journal that ALPA should distribute to every single pilot out there.

Check out the starting pay rates for pilots.

Alaska: $49,968
Southwest: $42,960
America West: $36,552
ATA: $36,000
Delta (new contract): $34,020
United: $33,924
Northwest: $33,468
American: $31,080
Continental: $30,000
US Airways: $29,520

Now, what do you see there? Hmmm. The three top paying carriers are all doing what? Making money.

But the reason that the legacy carriers are losing money is their overpaid employees. Whatever.
 
Of course starting pay rates is one tiny comparison point.

In the case of SWA there are no pension costs, which are a huge cost factor right now. Also more productivity from the SWA guys.

American West already low pay. I don't think they have an expensive pension program, could be wrong.

Alaska. I know the last time (last December) I compared Delta rates with an Alaska captain with same seniority and equipment I was making at least 20% more than he was. So Alaska was definitely not the highest paid before the Delta concessions. Right now they probably are near the top. But then they fly a lot of routes with light competition and likely are keeping their yields up.

If it was only as simple as comparing first year pay rates.

ATA is a good example. Lousy pay rates, but number 4 on first year pay rate, and they are TU.
 
Yeah, I know.

Perception is reality, though. And people out there have this perception of airline pilots as guys making $200K a year, working one or two trips a month, and they have it in their minds this is the cause of the problems in the airline industry.

If it gets people to think, uh, maybe there's more to it than that, then it's worth it.
 
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And people out there have this perception of airline pilots as guys making $200K a year, working one or two trips a month, and they have it in their minds this is the cause of the problems in the airline industry.

If it gets people to think, uh, maybe there's more to it than that, then it's worth it.

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Yeah, I just don't know how it matters what "people think". There is a lot of fascination with that here.

I don't think most people spend any amount of time thinking that pilot pay is "the problem".

This industry has to work out it's own problems which are mostly about over-capacity and a wide disparity in cost structures. It will get handled without regard to what the public "thinks" the problem is. To ALPA's credit they are taking their lumps without a lot of complaining. The national head of ALPA has stated straight out that pilots need to make big concessions, that pension plans have to be changed and that some hubs and carriers need to consolidate (a kind word for disappear). Them's the hard facts so who cares what people "think "?
 
It's somewhat different at Southwest. Southwest pays by the trip, it's more or less thepayrate times 1.132 or something like that. I heard it's 95-96 min. guaruntee for line and reserve guys. If you pick up open time, it's second year pay. So if you pick up 2 extra days that's about 12-17 more trips along with the 95. Most guys are flying around 105-115 trips, which is taking 1-2 days of open time. So your getting around 13-15 days off average. (all this I've heard from SWA guys)

1st year pay - 41.38 (trip pay) x 110 (average 1st year pilot TFP) = 54621.00 + 4000 peir diem = 58K as year 1 FO. Not including the 10-15 trips paid on second year pay.


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Like they said you can work the system and make good money as a year 1 guy/gal. Plus you can go to work and enjoy what you do for a living.

Woohoo, can't wait for SWA!!!
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Trip pay for 03-06 years -

SEAT YEAR EQUIP YEAR 1 YEAR 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR 5 YEAR 6 YEAR 7 YEAR 8 YEAR 9 YEAR 10 YEAR 11 YEAR 12
CA 9/1/2003 B-737 125.53 127.06 128.60 130.13 131.58 133.23 134.75 136.29 137.83 139.35 140.91 142.44
CA 9/1/2004 B-737 139.45 141.15 142.87 144.56 146.17 148.00 149.70 151.41 153.12 154.81 156.54 158.24
CA 9/1/2005 B-737 144.33 146.09 147.87 149.62 151.29 153.18 154.94 156.71 158.48 160.23 162.01 163.78
CA 8/31/2006 B-737 153.01 154.88 156.76 158.62 160.39 162.39 164.26 166.13 168.01 169.87 171.75 173.63

FO 9/1/2003 B-737 37.65 63.53 70.73 78.09 85.52 87.93 88.94 89.95 90.97 91.98 93.00 94.00
FO 9/1/2004 B-737 41.83 70.58 78.57 86.75 95.01 97.68 98.80 99.92 101.06 102.18 103.32 104.43
FO 9/1/2005 B-737 43.30 73.05 81.32 89.79 98.34 101.10 102.26 103.42 104.60 105.76 106.94 108.09
FO 8/31/2006 B-737 45.90 77.44 86.21 95.19 104.25 107.18 108.41 109.64 110.89 112.12 113.37 114.59
 
I agree, perception IS reality--which is why I'm gratified to see the Journal publish starting FO salaries; goes a long way in defeating the impression people have that all airline pilots make $200k/yr working part time. At the regional level, I think most passengers would deplane if they knew what their pilots were being paid.
 
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At the regional level, I think most passengers would deplane if they knew what their pilots were being paid.

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LOL, probably true.

But I just don't see that many people care one way or the other what pilots or anyone else makes. Why is there so much concern about the public perception? Like any other profession an aviator's pay is determined by forces that have nothing to do with what the general public thinks. So what if the "media" gets it wrong? They get everything wrong. And people not in the business will never understand the job so why worry about what they think?
 
People DO care, but they care in the wrong ways.

What other profession gets targeted in the media in terms of compensation more than professional aviation? I don't read it often, but every day in USAToday there's at least an article on airline compensation in the "Travel" section and another in the "Money" section

The problem is, people think a particular level of compensation is directly related to their ticket cost without realizing that we're just a few bucks per ticket.

Can't get from Detroit to Singapore for less than $500? Those darned overpaid pilots! Flight cancelled because of crew unavailability? It's those darned pilots!
 
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The problem is, people think a particular level of compensation is directly related to their ticket cost without realizing that we're just a few bucks per ticket.

Can't get from Detroit to Singapore for less than $500? Those darned overpaid pilots! Flight cancelled because of crew unavailability? It's those darned pilots!

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Who thinks like this? I've never run into anyone that was worrying at all about how much pilots make or how much of their ticket price goes to pilots. Compensation makes the news because labor negotiations, and issues like it are news. When one employee group can save or cost a company a billion dollars a year, it's news, especially in the business section. But for the average customer they just want cheap fares and could care less if it's below cost or what the costs are IMO. You are never going to "educate" anyone that they should want to pay more for their tickets because it's the fair thing to do. It's not human nature and it's not the way the market works. Prices are not determined by cost anyway. They are determined by what value the customer places on the product.
 
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"There are no winners at this point," Grinstein wrote.

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"No" winners? What sort of bonus will Grinchstein and other execs get for getting the pilots to cough up?

There are never "no winners" when MBAs are involved.

[/ QUOTE ]actually,the interesting portion of the TA is that there will be no bonus's given to mgmt for "saving the company" and any profits made, the pilots will get a cut of it...

at least from what i read
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

Selfishly, I hope so!
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Seriously, if I was eligable for early-out, I'd have taken it months ago. As soon as humanly possible.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

The more I see these reduced salaries and benfits pop up on an almost monthly basis makes me wonder why in the hell I am even considering putting my family through this.

The long trips away from the family aren't worth it if I am not going to be compensated fairly. I am by no means saying that every 20 year captain should make two or three hundred thousand dollars, but if the airline industry is going to be reduced to RJ's and pilots that make $60,000 I will go find something else to do that gets me home every night for baseball games and graduation.
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

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. . . but if the airline industry is going to be reduced to RJ's and pilots that make $60,000 I will go find something else to do that gets me home every night for baseball games and graduation.

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Screw that...that's what i'm trying to stay away from...
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Re: 100 retirees tonight?

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Screw that...that's what i'm trying to stay away from...

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That's too bad Lloyd. Is it all about you? What are you saying?
 
Re: 100 retirees tonight?

IMO-as a former Delta employee, one more thing Delta needs to do is reduce its fleet size. Too many variety of aircraft=a lot of maintenace cost! Sorry Doug
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but those darn MD-90'S are the worst aircraft i have ever seen. They are always prone to some kind of mechanical issue-they should be the first ones to go!
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