Delta Negotiations Update

chrisreedrules said:
So for anyone who stumbles upon this, consider one thing...

The economy is cyclical. During the next downturn, the company may want (and possibly get) pay and contract concessions. That same pay you're drooling over right now. Eventually, when the market is in your favor again, you can get that pay back. But it is much, MUCH more difficult to get scope back. I honestly can't believe it is even being considered by some under the current conditions.
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Yes the economy is cyclical. That's most what the profit sharing program untouched. Also, these are not the cyclical airlines of yesterday. A downtown in this day of Mega Legacies means $2-3 billion in profit instead of $4-6 billion.

I don't understand what you can't believe. C2012 did the same and record hiring ensued.

425 is a bigger number than 375 so we actually are IMPROVING scope.

As the screaming crowd of "50 seaters are going away anyway" approaches, I ask you a couple questions,

Skywest Inc is under contract for 111 CRJ 200s til 2022. How will Delta get rid of these aircraft before then without a trade like they did after C2012 with Skywest?

And suppose we do day no to this deal and force Delta to change their business plan and rely on SKYW Inc's 50s til contract completion, what leverage do we have left for a deal? Are we going all in on the hope a pilot shortage and regionals can't staff?

ian said:
still waiting on orange lanyard answer
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I strongly believe in and support the MEC Chairman and the NC. I wear the lanyard
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
@Trip7 : surely you realize you're making the exact same arguments that you did last year for NA2015, right?
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My argument is different. TA2015 I mainly didn't want to risk the additional mainline flying which came anyway.

Now I don't believe there's any AIP toxic enough to risk the TVM. @Richman update says the social media 18/3/3/3 is understated so I'm thinking the latest 18/3/3/4 might be it
 
meyers9163 said:
Sad thing is when you have people like Todd encouraging Marcus. Even with profit sharing you're rates barley top AAL on pay rates alone. So why give a thing? The 50 sweaters will go away. Why give more large RJs up? That's not protecting mainline jobs. Think how quickly those 717s would be gone when you open up more 76 seat RJs.

Pay rates mean nothing if the other verbiage isn't there. Please take note from APAs mistakes and don't cave on any scope. But "look at those group 4 rates." That was the attitude of AA pilots and APA and its failed the majority of our other pilots.
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FYI those rates are the Company's lowball 15.5/3/3/3 offer. Rumors are quoting increases at 18/3/3/3. It does not include profit sharing which is an additional 20-25% based on current earnings.
 
Trip7 said:
Skywest Inc is under contract for 111 CRJ 200s til 2022. How will Delta get rid of these aircraft before then without a trade like they did after C2012 with Skywest?
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They probably won't get rid of them for lack of a suitable replacement aircraft, and right now, those aircraft by their very nature are constrained to flying actually-regional routes.

Iron Mountain is lovely this time of year. Ditto Rheinlander, Hibbing, International Falls, etc. (I'm not being sarcastic, this is actually some great flying. But it's all 45-min radius of MSP. And none of it justifies a larger airplane.)

The dual-class aircraft, on the other hand, are far more capable machines that we can tank up from here and fly most of the way across the country.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
They probably won't get rid of them for lack of a suitable replacement aircraft, and right now, those aircraft by their very nature are constrained to flying actually-regional routes.

Iron Mountain is lovely this time of year. Ditto Rheinlander, Hibbing, International Falls, etc. (I'm not being sarcastic, this is actually some great flying. But it's all 45-min radius of MSP. And none of it justifies a larger airplane.)

The dual-class aircraft, on the other hand, are far more capable machines that we can tank up from here and fly most of the way across the country.
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How dare you bring common sense and logic into this
 
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ian said:
Please just stop. You are embarrassing yourself
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When people that aren't even conntected here are talking about it from his posts on FB and APC you know there's a problem. He's gone full Mullis. Hard to come back from that.
 
Derg said:
@Autothrust Blue is more or less the Zachary Quioto "Spock" of aviation.

Dispassionate and a smoother motha trucka with the ladies.
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Ain't personal, just business. I'm plenty passionate about the business, but at the end of the day I attempt to be as coldly dispassionate as is possible, and understand that this is about money.

Note: Okay, some of it is a little bit personal - long memories regarding the events of 2001-2008, which radically re-shaped my family's financial expectations among other things.
 
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ian said:
How dare you bring common sense and logic into this
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Someone has to.

The longest day I've done in the Skidoo Wonder Jet was MSP-CVG-BWI-CVG-MSP, as a series of extra sections to make up for a series of mainline and Endeavor cancellations/reroutes. That's all the more capability that DAL pilots should want from a regional jet, and it's the jet that "works" for the network up here.
 
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Welp, its hard to argue the logic of a significant decrease in airframes, block hours and seats when folks are still stuck on stage length and other emotional tidbits.

We'll just have to say we have a fundamental difference in the meaning of Scope and leave it at that.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Someone has to.

The longest day I've done in the Skidoo Wonder Jet was MSP-CVG-BWI-CVG-MSP, as a series of extra sections to make up for a series of mainline and Endeavor cancellations/reroutes. That's all the more capability that DAL pilots should want from a regional jet, and it's the jet that "works" for the network up here.
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Real quick - If that wasn't a 900 the coordinator up there shoulda been shot for saying yes when that call came in. I stick to sidelines in this end of the forum but wow.
 
Burrito said:
Real quick - If that wasn't a 900 the coordinator up there shoulda been shot for saying yes when that call came in. I stick to sidelines in this end of the forum but wow.
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We moved maybe 25-30 a leg on that operation, tops.

(MSP-CVG is routinely a -200 at certain times of day anyway.)
 
Burrito said:
OK - that makes ... rather, I'll put it this way - OK. I understand now. That's all I'll say about that; I'm going back to the shadows :)
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I showed up, thanked them for flying SouthernJets Connecshun, and and we moved the jet on time. :)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
They probably won't get rid of them for lack of a suitable replacement aircraft, and right now, those aircraft by their very nature are constrained to flying actually-regional routes.

Iron Mountain is lovely this time of year. Ditto Rheinlander, Hibbing, International Falls, etc. (I'm not being sarcastic, this is actually some great flying. But it's all 45-min radius of MSP. And none of it justifies a larger airplane.)

The dual-class aircraft, on the other hand, are far more capable machines that we can tank up from here and fly most of the way across the country.
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Just to play devils advocate, aren't those all Skywest at risk routes that are essentially more code shared with Delta than DCI?
 
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