ian
Well-Known Member
nothing else is a "QOL change" for him. it's disgusting.
Delta Negotiations Update
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not. I'm all for more mainline jobs like C2012. I sat in an RJ when C2012 voting results were announced on guard as many moaned about the "loss of scope". I had a feeling of hope and opportunity because I had done the math.
An increase in DCI jobs(scope) is not worth any pay raise in the world. I choose to remove the emotional aspect of a 76 seat RJ and focus on facts at actually pertain to pilot jobs like block hours and number of airframes. I admit I overlooked the low pay and very very toxic concessions of TA2015. Those have since been removed and pay rumored to significantly increase with no PS cut. We shall see what the reality is by the end of the week. Current QOL IMO is fantastic and I am fine with the status quo which these AIPs maintain(IMO).
I was right about C2012. Very wrong on C2015. We'll see on this one.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
I never really cared about health coverage until I got old.
I didn't really care about reserve until I started sporadically getting reserve in the last few years.
I never thought much about retirement, until it went away during bankruptcy.
I never really thought about trip rigs until I was back domestic and thinking "WHAT IN THE HELL DID WE DO? I'm beat! I did far less work on the mad dog pre-bankruptcy"
Even the pre-C2K contract, the "POS96" was heavily concessionary but it was 100X better than Skyway but I just listened and learned before I said, "Huh! Per diem! You get it! We didn't!"
I don't know, we have a lot of work to do and I still have a memory of how awesome certain things were before we gave them up for tinkets and promises from the company AND the union.
I didn't really care about reserve until I started sporadically getting reserve in the last few years.
I never thought much about retirement, until it went away during bankruptcy.
I never really thought about trip rigs until I was back domestic and thinking "WHAT IN THE HELL DID WE DO? I'm beat! I did far less work on the mad dog pre-bankruptcy"
Even the pre-C2K contract, the "POS96" was heavily concessionary but it was 100X better than Skyway but I just listened and learned before I said, "Huh! Per diem! You get it! We didn't!"
I don't know, we have a lot of work to do and I still have a memory of how awesome certain things were before we gave them up for tinkets and promises from the company AND the union.
Bob Ridpath
Pit Bull love
And the days when you start to think about those things arrive WAY more quickly than one might imagine, until they are ... well ... HERE and more urgently important. And the "trinkets and promises" aren't nearly as meaningful as once they seemed.
There is still a huge divide between management and labor within most business, tho' we try to minimize that gap to a larger degree these days.
There is still a huge divide between management and labor within most business, tho' we try to minimize that gap to a larger degree these days.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
I never really cared about health coverage until I got old.
I didn't really care about reserve until I started sporadically getting reserve in the last few years.
I never thought much about retirement, until it went away during bankruptcy.
I never really thought about trip rigs until I was back domestic and thinking "WHAT IN THE HELL DID WE DO? I'm beat! I did far less work on the mad dog pre-bankruptcy"
Even the pre-C2K contract, the "POS96" was heavily concessionary but it was 100X better than Skyway but I just listened and learned before I said, "Huh! Per diem! You get it! We didn't!"
I don't know, we have a lot of work to do and I still have a memory of how awesome certain things were before we gave them up for tinkets and promises from the company AND the union.
Sick leave & health care aren't important until they are.
We are all immortal until that day we wake up and realize we're not.
Richman
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
While both are extremely important I wish more people would take notice on the bolded. I'm young but have a family with unique challenges, we use our health care ALOT. One of my big wishes is to see major improvements but I know many people don't even think twice about health care or care to have it improved. Health care is very important to me.
motormadness24
Well-Known Member
@Trip7, just like many people told you last time that the 100 seaters (E190 at the time) were coming either way, the 50 seater is going away mostly either way. You're obviously a smart guy. Please, don't trip over yourself again. Didn't C2012 require DCI to go down to 125 50 seaters? I know wikipedia isn't the most accurate source, but it looks pretty up to date. Once the Republic 145's are gone, they will just now be going down to 125 50 seaters. That's 4 years after ratification of C2012, when they were supposed to go down to 125 50 seat aircraft. I can just see it now, if this scope is relaxed even more, the company will come up with some excuse about how they are going to delay the reduction of 50 seaters, all while BBD is pumping out CRJ-900's almost immediately. Oh, and didn't they violate the JV agreement from C2012 as well? As an aspiring SJI pilot, please, do not give away scope at the regional level, or at the wide body level for that matter. You say this will help shrink DCI, even though DCI is naturally going to shrink on it's own. All this will do is give DCI a lifeline to live longer than it should. In my eyes, I think you are seeing a short term gain, but it's really a long term loss.
I never really thought about the lunacy of an FAR 117 review board to determine if me not volunteering us to extend our duty day was crazy until you're sitting there, tired, on a reroute, extended and the right thing to do is to say "Hey, been fighting weather all day, we're going to fight weather on the way up to LGA, we're not extending" or thinking "Man, I'm going to spend way more time fighting this than just taking the risk and going"
Per diem! Man, I've been dying for an indexed per diem for international flying with a minimum baseline for almost a decade. Everything is fine and dandy domestic until you realize a beer and a semi rancid hunk of meat is going to run you $45 USD in some cities. And no, I'm not packing a lunchable to eat on a layover like I'm a college student.
I'm in my 40's, I wouldn't poop right after a bag of tuna and a Lunchable and then I probably gotta call in sick.
And there's THAT language...
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Sad thing is when you have people like Todd encouraging Marcus. Even with profit sharing you're rates barley top AAL on pay rates alone. So why give a thing? The 50 sweaters will go away. Why give more large RJs up? That's not protecting mainline jobs. Think how quickly those 717s would be gone when you open up more 76 seat RJs.
Pay rates mean nothing if the other verbiage isn't there. Please take note from APAs mistakes and don't cave on any scope. But "look at those group 4 rates." That was the attitude of AA pilots and APA and its failed the majority of our other pilots.
Pay rates mean nothing if the other verbiage isn't there. Please take note from APAs mistakes and don't cave on any scope. But "look at those group 4 rates." That was the attitude of AA pilots and APA and its failed the majority of our other pilots.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
This cannot be understated. The value of the poop schedule is so vital to the life of an aging airline pilot.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
I'm glad the current QOL is fantastic for you. I'm sure it is a whole lot better than what you had pre Delta. For those of us who have been here a whole lot longer than you, current QOL sucks donkey nutz. Same as the AIPs. There is nothing "status quo" about them form where I sit.
I'm sure you feel that you've hit the jackpot in the two years you've been here. However, all I've seen in my 17 years is constant erosion and loss. You might want to temper your message when attempting to talk down to those who have a whole lot more invested in, and have seen a whole lot more taken away.
B767
Well-Known Member
PDC. Pre Departure CrapPBS: Poops Being Scheduled??
He didn't have a dog in the hunt. It's like me trolling my high schools Facebook page.
But that's the lunacy of an academic debate with those with no skin in the game.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
So for anyone who stumbles upon this, consider one thing...
The economy is cyclical. During the next downturn, the company may want (and possibly get) pay and contract concessions. That same pay you're drooling over right now. Eventually, when the market is in your favor again, you can get that pay back. But it is much, MUCH more difficult to get scope back. I honestly can't believe it is even being considered by some under the current conditions.
The economy is cyclical. During the next downturn, the company may want (and possibly get) pay and contract concessions. That same pay you're drooling over right now. Eventually, when the market is in your favor again, you can get that pay back. But it is much, MUCH more difficult to get scope back. I honestly can't believe it is even being considered by some under the current conditions.