Delta Negotiations Update

This is most likely the reason for the giveback in mileage. I'd rather have 3 200's flying DTW-FNT then 1 E175-E2 flying LAX-RDU. The 50 seater will always be limited to regional routes, these new "regional" jets, not so much. Plus as noted by everyone already, the 50's will eventually all be parked anyways. Endeavor had stopped taking them out of the desert for the year because the checks were becoming too expensive.

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Trip7 said:
Giving away the 50 seaters for nothing implies that we just change the 76 seater language and keep everything else status quo.

Now exchanging this along with a couple other small language changes for 18/3/3/3 raises, full retro, and no changes to PS is a while different story
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In other words, management is offering the pilots money in exchange for continuing to operate a "higher quality product operated at a lower unit cost to the company".

Sounds like nothing has changed, yet you are willing to sell out scope for a few dollars.
 
undsioux1 said:
This is most likely the reason for the giveback in mileage. I'd rather have 3 200's flying DTW-FNT then 1 E175-E2 flying LAX-RDU. The 50 seater will always be limited to regional routes, these new "regional" jets, not so much. Plus as noted by everyone already, the 50's will eventually all be parked anyways. Endeavor had stopped taking them out of the desert for the year because the checks were becoming too expensive.

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Thank you for helping us acquire our long term thinking we all lack.
Or is it Long Distance thinking?
 
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Any truth they also want to get rid of the mileage requirements and max gross weight restrictions ?
 
In violation of my scared blood oath pinky swear with @Derg, I will make this one request:

Don't believe what you read on teh Intrawebz. Most of it is pure speculation. The people who were in the room (and there are damn few) know better than to let stuff out, and if they don't, it will come back to bite them. People styling themselves "in the know" aren't....they're Mr. Meeseeks and every time you push the button they're like "look at me!"

Call your rep and get the real story. Pointless speculation feeds into management, who IS watching the caterwauling and laughing.

Richman

"He's intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates...two dimensional thinking".

- Spock, Wrath of Kahn
 
Richman said:
In violation of my scared blood oath pinky swear with @Derg, I will make this one request:

Don't believe what you read on teh Intrawebz. Most of it is pure speculation. The people who were in the room (and there are damn few) know better than to let stuff out, and if they don't, it will come back to bite them. People styling themselves "in the know" aren't....they're Mr. Meeseeks and every time you push the button they're like "look at me!"

Call your rep and get the real story. Pointless speculation feeds into management, who IS watching the caterwauling and laughing.

Richman

"He's intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates...two dimensional thinking".

- Spock, Wrath of Kahn
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just read your update, well said.
 
Trip7 said:
Until the contracts/leases expire. With this deal they can give bombardier the 200s in exchange for a new 900 order just like they did in C2012. Skywest/XJT will also be more than willing to take a 2 for 1 deal swapping 200s of 900s. They make way more money on large RJ flying. That's why Skywest stock has hit record highs lately.

Like C2012, everyone wins with this proposal. Pilots, company, shareholders, manufacturers, and passengers. We had this same debate back before C2012. Everyone thought C2012 was giving up scope. Record hiring ensued and mainline airplanes returned to cities that hadn't seen one in years. AVL, TRI, ILM, OAJ etc. The precedent has be set.
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I have 37 more years at this airline. I would rather see the 50 seaters fly until their contracts are up as opposed to see 50 more two cabin 76 seaters fly for 20 more years.

How many more new hires can Delta squeeze in presently? I would venture to say not much, especially with two new aircraft (C-Series, A350) coming in soon, and a significantly sized aircraft (MD-88) starting to retire in the next five years. We would essentially be giving away 50 large regional jets solely for a pay raise. Is that worth it?

I say we force management to replace the 50 seaters with mainline aircraft, even if it is 5 plus years down the road. In the meantime, we would still be enjoying record hiring and mainline flying growth.
 
CFIscare said:
I have 37 more years at this airline. I would rather see the 50 seaters fly until their contracts are up as opposed to see 50 more two cabin 76 seaters fly for 20 more years.

How many more new hires can Delta squeeze in presently? I would venture to say not much, especially with two new aircraft (C-Series, A350) coming in soon, and a significantly sized aircraft (MD-88) starting to retire in the next five years. We would essentially be giving away 50 large regional jets solely for a pay raise. Is that worth it?

I say we force management to replace the 50 seaters with mainline aircraft, even if it is 5 plus years down the road. In the meantime, we would still be enjoying record hiring and mainline flying growth.
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Correction:

We would giving away 50 additional 76 seaters, AFTER
  • Removal of 125 50 seaters well before their leases/CPAs expire years down the road
  • Increasing the mainline minimum block ratio which:
    • Mathematically guarantees more mainline jobs
    • Mathematically guarantees less DCI jobs
    • Contractually protects all increased mainline flying
I want to be clear, I am only in support of this if this is used as leverage for greater gains which includes:
  • Absolutely no changes to PS
  • Industry leading pay
    • This is the company's initial 15.5/3/3/3 offer. Add 3% for rumored pay:
      IMG_3217.PNG
 
Trip7 said:
Correction:

We would giving away 50 additional 76 seaters, AFTER
I want to be clear, I am only in support of this if this is used as leverage for greater gains which includes:
  • Absolutely no changes to PS
  • Industry leading pay
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Just an observation but you only mention pay items. Which seems to be your only concern.
 
Richman said:
In violation of my scared blood oath pinky swear with @Derg, I will make this one request:

Don't believe what you read on teh Intrawebz. Most of it is pure speculation. The people who were in the room (and there are damn few) know better than to let stuff out, and if they don't, it will come back to bite them. People styling themselves "in the know" aren't....they're Mr. Meeseeks and every time you push the button they're like "look at me!"

Call your rep and get the real story. Pointless speculation feeds into management, who IS watching the caterwauling and laughing.

Richman

"He's intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates...two dimensional thinking".

- Spock, Wrath of Kahn
Click to expand...

This.

Over the last almost 20 years, the negotiators will throw out the occasional "trial balloon" to gauge your reaction.

Any multi billion dollar company is going to anonymously 'leak' information in order to do an end-run around your negotiators and representatives. ANY.

The concept of relieving scope for money has been tried numerous times and it's always blown up in our face. Then we were sold "max gross weight!" which quickly was brushed aside, orders were made and that iron-clad language we had protecting us from it was relieved with a "Uhh, maybe we really didn't understand what we agreed to" and was made legal with a quick Moak-esque "Side Letter of Agreement".

Everyone reads everything and there is zero 'pride' in any corporation having the highest paid, best QOL contract. As long as a corporation thinks it's the best of the best, the idea is to find the lowest cost that you, as a cog in a much larger machine, will reliably show up on time for. No corporation looks at FDX and says, "Great! You pay your pilots a lot of money! That's awesome!" If the negotiators can convince us, like they've painfully convinced a few, to fly for lower than relative scale rates AND give up efficiencies, especially during record sustained profits, they're going to go down as "Heroes of the Republic" and their cachet will rise to such epic levels, they will be able to command much higher signing bonuses and salaries in the management circles.

It's JUST BUSINESS and we need to put our big boy pants and realize this.

I think it's honorable that some of us have our sea legs and have the confidence of arguing with some guys who have been around a while, but at the end of the day, lets not the mistake of wholesale "misreading" pilot sentiment. The natives are more restless than they were before. We all have to figure out what we want our legacy to be.
 
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