Delta Negotiations Update

Trip7 said:
Actually it provides pay for more mainline jobs if this is indeed the pathway to a new contract. 18/3/3/3 raise is latest rumot. 150 50 seaters removed. DCI reduced from 450 to 375 airframes

Minimum floor for Mainline Block Hour Ratio increased. Mainline flying must be increased for each 76 seater added.

#ScopeChoke #Cseries
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Has there ever been a first deal that you've said no to?
 
Trip7 said:
Actually it provides pay for more mainline jobs if this is indeed the pathway to a new contract. 18/3/3/3 raise is latest rumot. 150 50 seaters removed. DCI reduced from 450 to 375 airframes

Minimum floor for Mainline Block Hour Ratio increased. Mainline flying must be increased for each 76 seater added.

#ScopeChoke #Cseries
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yeah lets completely ignore the removal of the hub to hub restriction, point to point restriction, and requirement for 85% of DCI flying to be under 900 miles for DCI....that's clearly your "Moak #scopechoke" working,
 
L-16B said:
They can park 50 seaters whenever they want. How is allowing more large rjs good for scope? I'm confused.
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I got a number of a guy you can call if you have any questions. He offered it a few years ago. Don't know if you still have it.
 
jtrain609 said:
Has there ever been a first deal that you've said no to?
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b6ef05717d1b7c3fc25ba0fa06cb6268.jpg
 
Trip7 said:
Actually it provides pay for more mainline jobs if this is indeed the pathway to a new contract. 18/3/3/3 raise is latest rumot. 150 50 seaters removed. DCI reduced from 450 to 375 airframes

Minimum floor for Mainline Block Hour Ratio increased. Mainline flying must be increased for each 76 seater added.

#ScopeChoke #Cseries
Click to expand...
How long do you foresee Delta flying those 150 50 seaters if this is not included in the TA?
 
CFIscare said:
How long do you foresee Delta flying those 150 50 seaters if this is not included in the TA?
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Until the contracts/leases expire. With this deal they can give bombardier the 200s in exchange for a new 900 order just like they did in C2012. Skywest/XJT will also be more than willing to take a 2 for 1 deal swapping 200s of 900s. They make way more money on large RJ flying. That's why Skywest stock has hit record highs lately.

Like C2012, everyone wins with this proposal. Pilots, company, shareholders, manufacturers, and passengers. We had this same debate back before C2012. Everyone thought C2012 was giving up scope. Record hiring ensued and mainline airplanes returned to cities that hadn't seen one in years. AVL, TRI, ILM, OAJ etc. The precedent has be set.
 
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Trip7 said:
Until the contracts/leases expire. With this deal they can give bombardier the 200s in exchange for a new 900 order just like they did in C2012. Skywest/XJT will also be more than willing to take a 2 for 1 deal swapping 200s of 900s. They make way more money on large RJ flying. That's why Skywest stock has hit record highs lately.

Like C2012, everyone wins with this proposal. Pilots, company, shareholders, manufacturers, and passengers. We had this same debate back before C2012. Everyone thought C2012 was giving up scope. Record hiring ensued and mainline airplanes returned to cities that hadn't seen one in years. AVL, TRI, ILM, OAJ etc. The precedent has be set.
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At what point do you stop voting yes on giving more large rjs then? What's your magic number?
 
Trip7 said:
Until the contracts/leases expire. With this deal they can give bombardier the 200s in exchange for a new 900 order just like they did in C2012. Skywest/XJT will also be more than willing to take a 2 for 1 deal swapping 200s of 900s. They make way more money on large RJ flying. That's why Skywest stock has hit record highs lately.

Like C2012, everyone wins with this proposal. Pilots, company, shareholders, manufacturers, and passengers. We had this same debate back before C2012. Everyone thought C2012 was giving up scope. Record hiring ensued and mainline airplanes returned to cities that hadn't seen one in years. AVL, TRI, ILM, OAJ etc. The precedent has be set.
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Wait... WHAT?!?!?

50 sweaters are going away at the end of the contracts/leases. C-series is coming regardless. Why in the world the would you allow Delta management to get 50 76-seaters for basically nothing??

If like you said, Contract 2012 was like this, then this is not a contractual gain. Draw a line in the sand and demand not one more RJ... period.
 
ctab5060X said:
Wait... WHAT?!?!?

50 sweaters are going away at the end of the contracts/leases. C-series is coming regardless. Why in the world the would you allow Delta management to get 50 76-seaters for basically nothing??

If like you said, Contract 2012 was like this, then this is not a contractual gain. Draw a line in the sand and demand not one more RJ... period.
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"Not one more seat, pound, jet, or job."

- three guesses as to who in my family grumbled THAT this week.
 
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Delta is asking the pilot union to trade 125 old 50 seat jets for 50 new two cabin 76 seat jets resulting in fewer regional jets, fewer seats flown by regional carriers, and a higher quality product operated at a lower unit cost to the company. Most people including federal mediators have a hard time seeing how the Delta pilots will be harmed by this type of fleet renewal.

Delta has moved more flying from regional carriers to mainline than UAL while AAL has increased regional jet flying. This transaction will continue the trend in reducing regional jet capacity at Delta.
 
ctab5060X said:
Wait... WHAT?!?!?

50 sweaters are going away at the end of the contracts/leases. C-series is coming regardless. Why in the world the would you allow Delta management to get 50 76-seaters for basically nothing??

If like you said, Contract 2012 was like this, then this is not a contractual gain. Draw a line in the sand and demand not one more RJ... period.
Click to expand...

Giving away the 50 seaters for nothing implies that we just change the 76 seater language and keep everything else status quo.

Now exchanging this along with a couple other small language changes for 18/3/3/3 raises, full retro, and no changes to PS is a while different story
 
Trip7 said:
Until the contracts/leases expire. With this deal they can give bombardier the 200s in exchange for a new 900 order just like they did in C2012. Skywest/XJT will also be more than willing to take a 2 for 1 deal swapping 200s of 900s. They make way more money on large RJ flying. That's why Skywest stock has hit record highs lately.

Like C2012, everyone wins with this proposal. Pilots, company, shareholders, manufacturers, and passengers. We had this same debate back before C2012. Everyone thought C2012 was giving up scope. Record hiring ensued and mainline airplanes returned to cities that hadn't seen one in years. AVL, TRI, ILM, OAJ etc. The precedent has be set.
Click to expand...
2 things

1.) You weren't at SJI in 2012
B.) They were supposed to hire in 2012 but C2012 was passed and the hiring plan stopped. Ask the 100+ CPZ poolies about their year long swim in the pool. There was a reason 100+ were hired and supposed to start class. I'll see if your visionary thinking can figure out what happened. Not to mention someone in SJI hiring/Asst Chief told me directly they got approval to start hiring.


Last but not least, why do you think all these AIPs scream productivity? Do you think maybe they're behind the hiring curve by about a year or so? Maybe short some pilots?
 
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Trip7 said:
Delta is asking the pilot union to trade 125 old 50 seat jets for 50 new two cabin 76 seat jets resulting in fewer regional jets, fewer seats flown by regional carriers, and a higher quality product operated at a lower unit cost to the company. Most people including federal mediators have a hard time seeing how the Delta pilots will be harmed by this type of fleet renewal.

Delta has moved more flying from regional carriers to mainline than UAL while AAL has increased regional jet flying. This transaction will continue the trend in reducing regional jet capacity at Delta.
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And pilots who only care about money short term and not their career long term.
 
Trip7 said:
Until the contracts/leases expire. With this deal they can give bombardier the 200s in exchange for a new 900 order just like they did in C2012. Skywest/XJT will also be more than willing to take a 2 for 1 deal swapping 200s of 900s. They make way more money on large RJ flying. That's why Skywest stock has hit record highs lately.

Like C2012, everyone wins with this proposal. Pilots, company, shareholders, manufacturers, and passengers. We had this same debate back before C2012. Everyone thought C2012 was giving up scope. Record hiring ensued and mainline airplanes returned to cities that hadn't seen one in years. AVL, TRI, ILM, OAJ etc. The precedent has be set.
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no, just no....

I'm ready for the "sorry guys I was wrong" again.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
2 things

1.) You weren't at SJI in 2012
B.) They were supposed to hire in 2012 but C2012 was passed and the hiring plan stopped. Ask the 100+ CPZ poolies about their year long swim in the pool. There was a reason 100+ were hired and supposed to start class. I'll see if your visionary thinking can figure out what happened. Not to mention someone in SJI hiring/Asst Chief told me directly they got approval to start hiring.


Last but not least, why do you think all these AIPs scream productivity? Do you think maybe they're behind the hiring curve by about a year or so? Maybe short some pilots?
Click to expand...
The stylistic use of different list, er, styles here is funny. (Deliberate?)
 
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