Delta Disqualifiers

mshunter said:
Honestly though, what does that have to do with the guy who has been there 5-10-15 years, and proven himself to be reliable, and competent enough? And if I'm good enough to fly your passengers on a "Connection" flight, I should be good enough to do it on a mainline flight. After all, I am representing the company who gives it's the flying.
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That's a suitable rationalization, but you do realize that some carriers are bringing more and more "feed" back in-house and moving away from large-scale outsourcing in order to have more control of their product.

I'm not saying I don't agree with what you're saying, however I would heavily suggest doing what you have to do to work on your exit from the regional sector.

The pretty girls at the party love Johnny Football Hero. Even though Tad the Math Major is just as smart, just as athletic and a better conversationalist, maybe change parties or join the football team.
 
mshunter said:
Honestly though, what does that have to do with the guy who has been there 5-10-15 years, and proven himself to be reliable, and competent enough? And if I'm good enough to fly your passengers on a "Connection" flight, I should be good enough to do it on a mainline flight. After all, I am representing the company who gives it's the flying.
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What is YOUR point? Seriously. Are you advocating:

Flows for regional pilots (and if so, which ones)?
Regional pilots be moved to the top of the stack (if so, based in what order)?
Complete elimination of all parts of the application besides flight times?

You've said you don't want to attend the job fairs and that you 'are good enough to fly the passengers on a mainline flight', so what is it that you propose?
 
Derg said:
That's a suitable rationalization, but you do realize that some carriers are bringing more and more "feed" back in-house and moving away from large-scale outsourcing in order to have more control of their product.
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And that's a very good thing.
 
mastermags said:
What is YOUR point? Seriously. Are you advocating:

Flows for regional pilots (and if so, which ones)?
Regional pilots be moved to the top of the stack (if so, based in what order)?
Complete elimination of all parts of the application besides flight times?

You've said you don't want to attend the job fairs and that you 'are good enough to fly the passengers on a mainline flight', so what is it that you propose?
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I'm not proposing any thing. Just pointing out that I'm good enough to do it, as long as I'm not paid the same.
 
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ATN_Pilot said:
Well, I am. Flows. Either put everyone on the same list, institute a flow, or get rid of all outsourced feed. You can't outsource your flying to contractors while keeping your name on it and then claim that the people doing that flying aren't good enough for your brand.
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I personally love explaining who I work for... I fly for Usairways, but its us airways express, operated by x airlines, formerly y airlines, a subsidiary of Z airline. But now we are American Airlines or Am.Eagle I think. Usually followed with a "so are you a real pilot?"

And in the end I'm not really sure anymore
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Well, I am. Flows. Either put everyone on the same list, institute a flow, or get rid of all outsourced feed. You can't outsource your flying to contractors while keeping your name on it and then claim that the people doing that flying aren't good enough for your brand.
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well you can.....because it's happening. is it pot calling kettle black? sure, but they get to make the rules at the end of the day.....i know everyone here knows this, but just beating a dead horse
 
mshunter said:
I'm not proposing any thing. Just pointing out that I'm good enough to do it, add long as I'm not paid the same.
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Ya'll are missing the point. It's not "Are you good enough to do the flying for mainline?" when it comes to regional pilots. after a few years in the trenches, everyone is qualified. It's "Are you a problem child, or a person no one wants to be cooped up with for 3-4 days."
 
Cptnchia said:
Ya'll are missing the point. It's not "Are you good enough to do the flying for mainline?" when it comes to regional pilots. after a few years in the trenches, everyone is qualified. It's "Are you a problem child, or a person no one wants to be cooped up with for 3-4 days."
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Which isn't going to be determined by silly criteria like how many years it took someone to complete college.

I don't know why some people won't just admit that these criteria are meaningless and are just there as arbitrary ways to reduce the stack of applications to a manageable level.
 
A degree is an easy thing to get. And may serve as a good career backup.

But, of course, we've been through this hundreds, if not thousands of times over the 19 years of Jetcareers.com

A regional pilot, today, that's in his mid twenties, early thirties knew this before they got into the business.
 
mshunter said:
Honestly though, what does that have to do with the guy who has been there 5-10-15 years, and proven himself to be reliable, and competent enough? And if I'm good enough to fly your passengers on a "Connection" flight, I should be good enough to do it on a mainline flight. After all, I am representing the company who gives it's the flying.
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While that seems logical, if anything, the SSP has shown that isn't the case. I doubt we will see a true flow at DL due to what they discovered was going on at the regional level through that process- particularly among the senior "lifers."

We had one make it through the SSP and then showed himself to be an all around completely incompetent pilot that barely skirted through training and then was unsafe on the line. He is no longer employed.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Well, I am. Flows. Either put everyone on the same list, institute a flow, or get rid of all outsourced feed. You can't outsource your flying to contractors while keeping your name on it and then claim that the people doing that flying aren't good enough for your brand.
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You walked away from this industry because you felt unfairly treated and refused to adapt to a change in your world. Frankly, that discounts anything you pontificate about concerning this industry to those who remain engaged.

Was outsourcing a bad thing? You betcha! Is that failed experiment slowly being fixed? You betcha! However, a lot of younger pilots profited from that experiment, including you. Where do you think you would be in your flying career if Gulfstream never existed?

The interview process for regional pilots isn't about finding pilots who are good enough, it's about weeding out the DBs who don't really belong flying passengers for anybody.
 
To ATN's credit, one thing mainline management has shown is a willingness to drop hoops pilots have to jump thru if the price is right.

Price was right with Endeavor so their SSP pilots have no Day 2 Psych Eval.

Price was right with Piedmont now they flow no interview.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Well, I am. Flows. Either put everyone on the same list, institute a flow, or get rid of all outsourced feed. You can't outsource your flying to contractors while keeping your name on it and then claim that the people doing that flying aren't good enough for your brand.
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You already know the latter suggestion is the way it's heading.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You can't outsource your flying to contractors while keeping your name on it and then claim that the people doing that flying aren't good enough for your brand.
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I agree. And it looks like with the 717's they're doing just that.

I fully agree that if a passenger buys a ticket on Delta, they should be on a Delta jet flown by Delta pilots.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
We had one make it through the SSP and then showed himself to be an all around completely incompetent pilot that barely skirted through training and then was unsafe on the line. He is no longer employed.
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Rather than worrying about mainline hiring criteria, then, they should be asking "how the hell were we allowing this guy to fly our customers at one of our feeder carriers for so long? We need to do something about this!" But they won't, because they can skirt liability. That needs to change.

Cptnchia said:
You walked away from this industry because you felt unfairly treated and refused to adapt to a change in your world.
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You forgot the part about making a lot more money than I could make in the industry and spending every night at home. So, really, you're completely wrong. But thanks for playing!

Frankly, that discounts anything you pontificate about concerning this industry to those who remain engaged.
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I think the people who walk away have a lot to add to the conversation about what is wrong with the industry. Especially those who were so involved in improving it for so long. But you're welcome to speed right on past my posts if you don't want to listen to some dirty former airline pilot.

Where do you think you would be in your flying career if Gulfstream never existed?
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Trying to predict how the industry would look today if outsourcing never occurred is a fool's errand. None of us could possibly have any idea.

The interview process for regional pilots isn't about finding pilots who are good enough, it's about weeding out the DBs who don't really belong flying passengers for anybody.
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That's great. But the point is, that "weeding out" needs to happen at the regional level, not after that DB has been flying your brand's passengers for 10 years already. As a Delta customer, how do you think I like the idea of flying on a feeder airline whose pilots are viewed by Delta as being too inferior to be "real" Delta? Does that demonstrate that Delta really cares about the quality of the product that they're providing me as a customer? What does it say about their concern for my safety? Don't you see how ludicrous this is? They're already flying Delta passengers!

mastermags said:
You already know the latter suggestion is the way it's heading.
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Not completely, but the regionals will definitely be whittled down a lot from their "glory" days.
 
Back in the last controller hiring frenzy post strike, the FAA hired a bunch of folks. Many had no degree, nor is one required to do the job.

However, soon after that management realized there is quite a difference in the degreed vs non degreed mentality. That was why the college training stuff was borne, they wanted people with degrees and the mentality that went with it.

I see it here. The east pilot group is about 75% 4 year holders, 25% <4 year. Contrast that with the west group, 25% have degrees the rest do not. The west guys tend to be fairly rough around the edges, putting it nicely. Huge difference in the demeanor of a west vs east crew, from pilots to FAs even.

That's probably why DL wants a degree. It's an easy screen and while yes, those west guys can fly airplanes as good or better than the east, there is a big difference in personality between the groups.
 
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