surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Nah.
You're expecting too much brotha.
You're expecting too much brotha.
But seriously, if the most effective retort you can come up with is essentially, "ummm, well you're not a major airline pilot, so clearly in a discussion about what degrees require the most critical thinking it is obvious that liberal arts > engineering," then you may not have gotten the return on your investment you think you did. ;-)
I am certain that at a future NJC I will be buying you a libation and telling you that you were right!
I'm 48 years old. My high school transcripts in no way, shape or form reflect on the type of man I am today... I agree with you totally, It's borderline insulting to ask a an accomplished military officer for H.S. transcrips..
This post tells me a lot... It tells me that your opinion of engineers in based on some outdated 1950s concept of guys running around with sliderules and pocket protectors. Fortunately, this is the 21st century and that is not at all how things are done in the industry, and it is absolutely not how engineering students are taught.
Engineering today is not done in a solitary vacuum. One must have very strong communication skills to work within design groups, interfacing directly with customers, vendors, and in some cases marketing and sales. Critical thinking and communications are extremely important, as much as the technical skills are.
Man, you really got me. How will I ever be able to live with myself at home in Hawaii where I am presently sitting on call in my living room watching the Magic School Bus with my son. One day, I hope I can really make it like you have. /s
But seriously, if the most effective retort you can come up with is essentially, "ummm, well you're not a major airline pilot, so clearly in a discussion about what degrees require the most critical thinking it is obvious that liberal arts > engineering," then you may not have gotten the return on your investment you think you did. ;-)
I don't think one's suitability for flying is based in any way on college.
-Fox
Looooool... I don't know about that.They'd retain a Masters in Underwater Basket Weaving if an accredited university offered a degree in it.
I wouldn't go that far.
If you were talking only about flying skills (stick and rudder) I would agree, but flying is about 5% stick and rudder, and 95% other stuff. Being educated helps with the other stuff. Now you can go to college and not become educated, in which case college doesn't help you at all. Or you can not go to college and educate yourself, but that's not easy either. It's also harder to show on a resume, which is part of the game, for better or worse.
Again, my point was that being educated is what matters. Engineers can go to school and not be educated. Philosophy majors can go to school and not be educated.
Look, girls, you're ALL pretty, in your own special way.
I'm 48 years old. My high school transcripts in no way, shape or form reflect on the type of man I am today... I agree with you totally, It's borderline insulting to ask a an accomplished military officer for H.S. transcrips..
I just did...
... and so did you. Once you necessarily imply that there is a divorce between college and education, you cede that college itself isn't a requisite for the 95% "other stuff" that requires education.
As you say yourself, a college degree doesn't prove an individual's education any more than the lack of one disproves it. There might be some degree of correlation, but dare I point out "post hoc ergo propter hoc"? Do you feel that the plurality of individuals who succeed in achieving a state of education would have remained uneducated had they not spent a ridiculous amount of money and years of their life on a degree?
I agree on all three counts, although my personal preference—as a "retired" 'Engineer' / 'Architect'—is to find people who are smart enough again to recognize that college is a racket, and stubborn enough to refuse to "play the game" just to avoid the work that being "un-credentialed" will bring.
Perhaps that's arrogant, but even from a systems point of view I'd rather have a stubbornly correct opponent than a silently dissenting one... and I think college imbues its subjects with the value of conformity far more effectively than people realize. This is one reason I feel that an honest, deep, introspective study of philosophy and logic would benefit any single human being, and why I feel that many of the engineers I've worked with have proven to be the worst at discussing fuzzier concepts; many are trained to think in absolutes, a shortcut that subverts all of the value of the beautiful device that is the human mind and imperils any project they find themselves working on.
I support higher education, as long as it challenges a person's preconceptions, allows them to achieve their own system of foundational thinking and supports them in it, and further, develops within them a willingness to examine alternative points of view.
However, I feel that it often serves instead as an indoctrination process to support the higher education racket, and this is something I will remain vehemently in opposition to as long as I shall live.
There, done.
*Pant*
-Fox, mostly just pissed that even Horizon is now apparently requiring an AS degree.
And we know that not all diodes only go one direction. 8)pullup said:No way, engineering is all about problem solving, which involves...yup, critical thinking.
It's a screening technique to answer the question of "Did you read the question? Did you care enough about applying here that you'll provide the information?" "Are you detail oriented?" "Are you a that looks about right type?"
Their job listing on alaskaair.com states otherwise. A two-year or four-year degree is preferred, but only a high school diploma is required.... mostly just pissed that even Horizon is now apparently requiring an AS degree.
They can do that without requiring information that no one keeps. They're sending people on a crazy wild goose chase for something completely irrelevant.