Deadheading...would you take the jumpseat?

I recently had a VA guy listed to ride with me LGB to SDF. I wanted to make sure it wasn't Cherokee so I googled him and got a good hit on his facebook page. He was ex-Spirit and not ex-PCL. His background was much different than I know Cherokee's to be. I would have gladly taken the guy if he had shown, but sadly, he didn't. If I knew who Cherokee was, I'd be happy to not have him on my jumpseat. If I ever need a ride on VA, I'd be happy to take my chances. You reap what you sow. The anti-union stuff hear wears thin....
 
I gotta agree with Kellwolf on this one. Never liked it. I think it's stupid. My biggest complaint is though you are buying a reservation, they lead you to believe you're safe with flight number and seat offering. :(
 
falconvalley said:
I gotta agree with Kellwolf on this one. Never liked it. I think it's stupid. My biggest complaint is though you are buying a reservation, they lead you to believe you're safe with flight number and seat offering. :(
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There is some wisdom to it though when you have some flights having an average of a dozen no-shows and misconnects the day of departure.

Take for instance, Delta's MSP-NRT flight.

MSP is too vast of an airport layout to reliably make a 30 minute connection yet people's reservations have such a tight time built into it. Factor in the time it takes many of the people coming in about 5-10 minutes just to claim their valet bags or get off of the 757-300 they just arrived on, and they've still got possibly a mile of traversing the concourses before they reach the gate. That can easily add up to 30-40 minutes with no delays.

Worse still, some people who hadn't done their homework, will have a reservation from Orbitz or whatever site, that will have them fly into the Humphrey Terminal on, say, AirTran, and out of the Lindbergh Terminal on Delta! That's nearly an hour to make it work so forget it, that person is doomed from the start of their journey -- they can't make their itinerary work and they will be a no-show.

So out of 250 seats, it really doesn't seem unreasonable to overbook by a few. If the stars align and one day nearly everyone gets to the gate on time...well...let the auction begin. Half of the vouchers given out are never redeemed anyway!
 
The financial aspects of it are quite positive. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the fact that I'm not at the dog track. I'm purchasing a service that I expect to be able recover when it was claimed to be offered. "We need this money" is not good enough. If that means the airlines need to find a way to be financially balanced, then sobeit. They are rewarding those who don't show up and punishing those who do.
 
DE727UPS said:
I recently had a VA guy listed to ride with me LGB to SDF. I wanted to make sure it wasn't Cherokee so I googled him and got a good hit on his facebook page. He was ex-Spirit and not ex-PCL. His background was much different than I know Cherokee's to be. I would have gladly taken the guy if he had shown, but sadly, he didn't. If I knew who Cherokee was, I'd be happy to not have him on my jumpseat. If I ever need a ride on VA, I'd be happy to take my chances. You reap what you sow. The anti-union stuff hear wears thin....
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Yup. Tis a small world.

That's actually why I proudly rock the Jetcareers stickers on my suitcase and my flight case. Was hoping to end up running into more people from here, but so far it has only introduced me to etflies in the IAD crew lot.
 
For those saying it is 'bad business practice' to oversell flights, do y'all understand that involuntary denied boarding is laid out in the open in the contract of carriage for the passengers? The information is out there.
 
Nick said:
So out of 250 seats, it really doesn't seem unreasonable to overbook by a few. If the stars align and one day nearly everyone gets to the gate on time...well...let the auction begin. Half of the vouchers given out are never redeemed anyway!
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Agreed. When you schedule that many people to be in one area at once, somebody is going to have something come up and won't be able to make it. I think the idea of overselling flights isn't a bad one. But I think the numbers should have to be backed up by historical data on how many people don't usually show up so that its actually a rare occurrence to have to bribe people out of their seats.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Yup. Tis a small world.

That's actually why I proudly rock the Jetcareers stickers on my suitcase and my flight case. Was hoping to end up running into more people from here, but so far it has only introduced me to etflies in the IAD crew lot.
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It made Mr. Toad's Wild IAD Employee Ride rather enjoyable though.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Yup. Tis a small world.

That's actually why I proudly rock the Jetcareers stickers on my suitcase and my flight case. Was hoping to end up running into more people from here, but so far it has only introduced me to etflies in the IAD crew lot.
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And some scumbag supplemental pilot half-asleep in IAD.
 
DE727UPS said:
I recently had a VA guy listed to ride with me LGB to SDF. I wanted to make sure it wasn't Cherokee so I googled him and got a good hit on his facebook page. He was ex-Spirit and not ex-PCL. His background was much different than I know Cherokee's to be. I would have gladly taken the guy if he had shown, but sadly, he didn't. If I knew who Cherokee was, I'd be happy to not have him on my jumpseat. If I ever need a ride on VA, I'd be happy to take my chances. You reap what you sow. The anti-union stuff hear wears thin....
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So, you wouldn't take me on a jumpseat because of anti-union views? Rest assured, in real life I'm somewhat quiet in flight, and I keep union talks out of the cockpit. If you ever need a ride on VA, you're always welcome. No one will give you any gripe about any union/non-union stuff. There are no chances to take, you will get on as long as there is a cabin seat or a flight deck jumpseat open. If I was a CA and you were on my flight, you'd be welcome with open arms. I'd say that for any pilot. I do not let online forum pissing matches get in the way of real world situations. Jumpseats are a priviledge, a way for many to get a ride home or to work. There should be a no BS approach to that. No one wins in denying a jumpseat in order to "I'll show him!"
 
Seggy said:
For those saying it is 'bad business practice' to oversell flights, do y'all understand that involuntary denied boarding is laid out in the open in the contract of carriage for the passengers? The information is out there.
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But that doesn't make it right as far as a customer service practice. Disney says they can deny entry to anyone they want, too. It's on the back of the ticket. Would it be good customer service to randomly start denying people entrance to the park, though? Yes, the information is out there. The fact remains that it's in the Contract of Carriage to cover IROP situations, not as a scheduling or booking practice. At least, it SHOUDLN'T be. Originally, it was there to keep people from sueing the airline if their flight got canceled or an IROP hit. Now, airlines see a way to make more $$$ by double dipping on seats.

As far as itineraires at MSP with a 30 minute connect on Delta, well, who makes those? SWA wouldn't let you books a connection less than 45 minutes. Not sure what Delta's is, but if the airline sets the connection time in the reservation, well, I don't think it's unreasonable for a paying customer to assume it's a reasonable time. It's pretty conspiracy theorist to think this, but it's feasable that the airline could allow those lower times in order to make it so people purposefully misconnect, thus being able to sell a seat in a prime travel time (ie mid-morning early afternoon) twice.

If the margins are as thin as everyone here claims, one involuntarily denied boarding would eat the profits of several flights. Might as well head to Vegas and play blackjack while the airline is gambling. If it's the last flight of the night, even WITH people accepting other compensation, you're talking a few hotel rooms. That can get pretty pricey in places like JFK or LGA.

I just don't see how anyone in a customer service business sees this as good customer service......
 
kellwolf said:
The airline is basically gambling that people aren't gonna make the flight.
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They're not gambling, they're using hard data. Very expensive and very sophisticated yield management software makes the determination as to how many tickets are available to be sold on each flight, and it bases the data on past no-show numbers for specific flights on specific dates at specific times. It is incredibly accurate, which is why actual denied boardings are incredibly rare.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Dude, as much as I used to rag on their driving...they've gotten new busses and those actually ride quite nicely.
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Thats good, some of those things were questionable even for the short journey between parking and terminal. I've moved out West so I'm not a frequent IAD visitor now but glad to hear things have improved. Hope all is well with you!
 
ATN_Pilot said:
They're not gambling, they're using hard data. Very expensive and very sophisticated yield management software makes the determination as to how many tickets are available to be sold on each flight, and it bases the data on past no-show numbers for specific flights on specific dates at specific times. It is incredibly accurate, which is why actual denied boardings are incredibly rare.
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If that's the case, why do airlines have to solicite volunteers so often? If the projections were accurate, they should have it down by now. As it is, nearly every flight I operated last summer was in "an oversold situation." If the projections were on, then why were gate agents handing out vouchers at all? I can see soliciting them because it's oversold just in case, but if the software is so spot on as you claim, they shouldn't have to actually issue the vouchers.

ATN_Pilot said:
Ahh, I see the problem. You still think this is a customer service business. It's not. It stopped being such shortly after 1978.
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If anything, I'd say it became MORE of a customer service oriented business after 1978 when airlines could directly compete with each other without government approval. Put two airlines that charge similar prices operating the same route, one that treats it's customers like dirt and the other treats them well. Watch which one survives. Then tell me it's not a customer service business. If it has nothing to do with customer service, what it is? It's not a utility. It's not bus service. Maybe I'm just not numb to being treated like I don't matter like so many people in the world are today.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Ahh, I see the problem. You still think this is a customer service business. It's not. It stopped being such shortly after 1978.
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Let me tell you a story about that.

One day, I went to see the doctor. Everything about the visit was quick, clean, efficient, and professional, to the point that I'd never been treated this well at a doctor's office before. I told this to the doc, and he told me, "Well, what people don't realize is that EVERY industry is the service industry, and if you take care of people first, your business will do well."

Smart man.
 
Seggy said:
For those saying it is 'bad business practice' to oversell flights, do y'all understand that involuntary denied boarding is laid out in the open in the contract of carriage for the passengers? The information is out there.
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I used to think this way, then 10 years ago I got my first job in airline customer service and realized just how laughable that idea was. Passengers cannot even figure out how to read their itinerary. Just the other day I had a 5 minute argument with a couple that claimed they got free checked bags because the top line of their itinerary said "Free Bags." Had they taken two seconds to look down the column they would have seen the "0 Pcs" right after their flight information. Got quite an ear full about how we were "deceptive and unfair" and all sorts of other complaints.

My other favorite situation involves the blasted cobranded credit card that gets a free checked bag. On the application, right after the words, "One Free Checked Bag" is a tiny little number 1. Flip to the back and see that next to another little number 1 is the explaination that only the basic cardmember gets that benefit and not additional card holders on the same account. Spend a lot of time getting yelled at because no one ever explained that to them and it's unfair that since they are an additional card holder on the account they should get something they aren't entitled to. If people sign up for credit cards without reading the terms, why would you expect them to do the same for airline tickets?

The last few days have been quite rough in the oversold flight area. In 13 departures over the last three days that I have worked, 9 were oversold by more than 5. Almost every single passenger I had to give notice about potentially being denied boarding started going on about how they had no idea this was possible and how they had a confirmed seat they booked three months and it was unfair that they got singled out. Sure the contract of carriage states on page 42 that flights may be overbooked and outlines how the chosen few are selected to be involuntarily denied boarding, but expecting passengers to actually read and understand a 49 page PDF before their flight is simply laugable.
 
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