DCA Advertising

[dpewing]

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"I'm totally ignoring the marketing, after all marketing is just another word for lying"

Okay...are you saying you think the DCA marketing is less than truthful? I guess I'm old school but I don't think marketing should be another word for lying.

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Maybe lying was too strong of a word. I've spent 12 years in the military and the marketing I'm talking about is like when an Army recruiter says that you'll be working with computers, and you end up as a cook using a calculator to figure out how much flour goes into pancake batter. It's technically accurate, but not at all what you thought it was going to be like.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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My point is that everyone has their own take on DCA based on their experiences. I know that there are people out there who have nothing but good things to say about DCA. I also know there are people that had nothing but bad experiences. So my motivation for asking anyone whether they are a former disgruntled student, or someone who didn't get hired, is my way of being blunt and tring to figure out what their personal experience was with DCA.

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So, using your logical, you have to try gay sex to figure out that it's not your thing?

 

[planediveguy]

I just hope I am not coming out that way. I don't mean to be arrogant and don't think that there is only "DCA's way or the highway"...

I have seen the arrogance that you mention, but that is not exclusive to part 141....


Your avatar cracks me up!

 

[dpewing]

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My point is that everyone has their own take on DCA based on their experiences. I know that there are people out there who have nothing but good things to say about DCA. I also know there are people that had nothing but bad experiences. So my motivation for asking anyone whether they are a former disgruntled student, or someone who didn't get hired, is my way of being blunt and tring to figure out what their personal experience was with DCA.

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So, using your logical, you have to try gay sex to figure out that it's not your thing?

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Putting your gay sex experience aside, or behind you as it were.... Have you ever attended DCA, and if you did, what did you like and dislike about the school?

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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Putting your gay sex experience aside, or behind you as it were.... Have you ever attended DCA, and if you did, what did you like and dislike about the school?

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No gay sex experience to speak of...but I can ask some folks and find out some info if you'd like...

No, I've never attended DCA, but I've known alot of peopel that have. Some good pilots, some bad pilots. Some flight instructors, some banner pilots. From what i've seen of their folks, their training is no better or worse than anybody else. They do manage to enlarge the heads, though.

I did all of my training part 61, and I work with folks that went to fancy academies. We're all the same....

What don't I like about DCA? Do I really have to answer that? Tell me, what do you like about them?

 

[planediveguy]

No, I've never attended DCA, but I've known alot of peopel that have. Some good pilots, some bad pilots. Some flight instructors, some banner pilots. From what i've seen of their folks, their training is no better or worse than anybody else. They do manage to enlarge the heads, though.

I did all of my training part 61, and I work with folks that went to fancy academies. We're all the same....



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Dear Loyd...

I have seen people get certified as Scuba Diving Instructors and get the same bad attitude as the peeople that you've met from DCA...

We have our share of them probably every year at school and there is little we can do... those are the ones that are "power hungry" they long to become stage check pilots or group leaders so they can go around with their four bar epaulettes feeling superior and pretending they are in charge... I have a friend that flies 737s for Continental that put it the best way: - "Cessna Captains".

But they are not the norm. Or at least not to my experience. Most of the folks there want to do a good job with their students so they can move along and get their interview. Most of the group leaders and stage check pilots work very hard for the same objective.

And don't forget that some of the people that you've met probably did not get hired ...and I am assuming here... otherwise they would be flying for COMAIR or another carrier?!?! Please correct me if I am wrong...

By the way your avatar... oh, I'd better not get into that!

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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By the way your avatar... oh, I'd better not get into that!

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Do I make you randi?

 

[dpewing]

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No, I've never attended DCA, but I've known alot of peopel that have. Some good pilots, some bad pilots. Some flight instructors, some banner pilots. From what i've seen of their folks, their training is no better or worse than anybody else. They do manage to enlarge the heads, though.

I did all of my training part 61, and I work with folks that went to fancy academies. We're all the same....

What don't I like about DCA? Do I really have to answer that? Tell me, what do you like about them?

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Everything I like about DCA I could find at any good part 141 school. I've read the marketing documents and have been on the tour, so I've seen what DCA wants potential students to see. So I'd like to hear from students and instructors concerning what they like and dislike. My only reason for asking if they had a good or bad experience at DCA is for me to put their feedback into the proper context. If someone had a great experience there and has has money to burn, I'd expect them to say DCA is the best thing since sliced bread. If someone ran out of money, or got kicked out for whatever reason, I'd expect them to tell me all of the negitive things about DCA. Right now I could go either way concerning DCA, I'm looking for some honest feed back to help me make up my mind. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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Everything I like about DCA I could find at any good part 141 school.

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So, why DCA? Why not any other good part 141 school? What do these 141 schools offer that a part 61 school doesn't?

Just asking...

 

[dpewing]

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So, why DCA? Why not any other good part 141 school? What do these 141 schools offer that a part 61 school doesn't?

Just asking...

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My ultimate career goal could be to be an instructor and not build time to get into the airlines, so I figure that learning in a more structured enviroment would help me teach in a part 141 school. I'm not making any judgements about part 61 verses 141, I'm sure there are part 61 schools that are technically better than many part 141 programs. I haven't made up my mind on DCA, I'm just gathering information at this point. I'm currently working on my Commercial rating at a very good local FBO flight school. I'm trying to justify spending the extra money to go to DCA. Do you know of a part 141 school to get my CFI/CFII ratings at that you have heard good things about?

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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Do you know of a part 141 school to get my CFI/CFII ratings at that you have heard good things about?

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Know where Nashville is?

Most part 141 schools don't even do the CFI and CFII under part 141...there are alot of exceptions, but that's why I said most...

If you're working on your commercial now and you're just looking to get your CFI/CFII, you'll be wasting your money at DCA, IMHO. They'll rip you a new one for that.

I did my initial CFI training under part 61 at a local FBO, with a very-well qualified guy (who happened to come from DCA for training...). It was very organized, and didn't cost a fraction of what DCA would have.

I think I'm pretty well qualified to teach at a 141 school, and so does my Cfief Flight Instructor, who has checked me out in the 141 aircraft...

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It's all in what you take from it.

Are you looking for ab accelerated course?

 

[Joepilot]

DCA has some of the best training out there, But you have to remember that the airline interview is conditional that you get hired as an instructor. When I interviewed there were probably 150 students in the CFI group trying to interview with the school. I didn't get hired, but I have actually made out better than my friends who are working for the school currently. I am about 200 hrs ahead of them and an oppotunity to fly in a King Air. The advertisements lead the average person to believe that they can just walk in and be in the right seat of a CRJ in 2 years. I hope for my friend's sake that they can keep going with both Delta and USair slowly going down the toilet. Find out everything you can. Read the fine print (if you can find it).

 

[dpewing]

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Are you looking for an accelerated course?

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Yes, that would work better for me right now.

 

[dpewing]

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DCA has some of the best training out there, But you have to remember that the airline interview is conditional that you get hired as an instructor. When I interviewed there were probably 150 students in the CFI group trying to interview with the school. I didn't get hired, but I have actually made out better than my friends who are working for the school currently. I am about 200 hrs ahead of them and an oppotunity to fly in a King Air. The advertisements lead the average person to believe that they can just walk in and be in the right seat of a CRJ in 2 years. I hope for my friend's sake that they can keep going with both Delta and USair slowly going down the toilet. Find out everything you can. Read the fine print (if you can find it).

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So you're an instructor at another part 141 school? Are there many openings for new CFIs out there?

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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Are you looking for an accelerated course?

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Yes, that would work better for me right now.

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Not many accelerated programs are 141...most of them are part 61.

I suggest that you find a good accelerated, part 61 course. Just what I think....

 

[Joepilot]

So you're an instructor at another part 141 school? Are there many openings for new CFIs out there?

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I am actually instructing at a part 61 school. I thought I would hat it, but it is actually quite relaxing. It is quite a change going from structure to no structure. I have about 8 students and have logged about 300 dual given since Jan. The jobs are out there if you can find them.

 

[gtpilot]

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So I'd like to hear from students and instructors concerning what they like and dislike. Right now I could go either way concerning DCA, I'm looking for some honest feed back to help me make up my mind.

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I am coming up on a year at DCA and will finish my CFII rating before a full year is over. I did all of my training at DCA and here's my honest run down:

What I like:

1. Their standards of performance are very strict. The FAA check rides were a joke after the in house check rides.

2. Orlando-Sanford is a great training base - The shear number of airplanes being handled by ATC or having to dodge when in the practice area really keeps you on your toes. In my opinion, the busy 'B' area is a great way to train.

3. Of my eight instructors so far, I've only had one dud. I also advocate using several different instructors like this because it forces you to recognize that different individuals take different approaches to the same problem and different approaches can both be right.

4. I have several friends who went to other schools after commercial, did multi or CFI elsewhere and came back saying that the other programs were so easy compaired to DCA. One did a one week multi program and couldn't tell me any of the Vmc factors or why a twin aircraft has a critical engine.

What I don't like:

1. They lie. I knew this up front but I still don't like it. The latest advertisement is better (no huge thumb, no YOU'RE HIRED!! in big letters and not Delta was so convinced that they bought us!). They also give you a price quote for the average student. I am better than average in my class and I'm way over budget.

2. The planes are old and not standardized. They're getting better but if I am hired here, I don't expect to see a standardized fleet before any of my student graduate and become captains for an airline.

3. Instructors are severely underpaid. $10/hr just doesn't compair to Pan-am's 30K per year or FSI's $15/hr or even local FBO's $15-20/hr.

I think the program really is a good one but there is a lot of BS that you have to put up with here. Just my 2 cents.

 

[planediveguy]

dpewing,

It comes down to you making a decision on what do you want from your flight training.

If you are young (25 or less) and have a whole career ahead of you, you pretty much can get "there" by any means... as long as you are willing to put the effort.

People choose 141 schools because they want an accelerated program.... They don't want to wait and that is the closest to immediate gratification they can get.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both sides, and since you have been researching this issue I will assume that you know them.

DCA has one thing that stands out. You get a GUARANTEED interview with one of the Delta Connection Carriers, IF YOU COMPLETE BOTH PHASES OF THE PROGRAM. That is stated in the paperwork and nobody there guarantees that you will fisnish your training or get hired as an instructor. That part depends on YOU. How you perform as a student, not so much on checkrides, buty your attitude towards the training.

I know of instructors that busted every checkride and have gotten hired by the Academy AND Comair. but a "slacker" that doesn't come ready and don't do homework etc. might have a harder time finising the program. The attitude " I am paying a lot of money so hold my hands and don't expect me to work hard". - Will lead you to writing angry posts in forums like this one.

There are a lot of schools out there that have first class equipment and great training... but once you are done you will fall in the pool of people that are looking for an interview...in that sense your licenses will all be the same, as the airlines really don't care where you got them.

Some people have left DCA to get a Type rating on the CRJ and a chance to fly for Air Wisconsin... That is great IF they hire you... if they don't you are SOL back in the pool.

DCA in the other hand will walk your resume for you and arrange for the interview. they only guarantee one interview, but this last year people that did not get hired by their first choice, got a second chance with another carrier and got hired.

They tell us that seniority is the big thing in the airlines...so getting there first is a big thing. You can spend 5 to 6 years out there flying freight, towing and instructing to get enough hours to be competitive... or you can spend the $$$ to get it done in 2 to 3 years... the choice is yours.

 

[DE727UPS]

My buddy got his CFI and had 300 hours about a year ago. Now he's working a 135 single job, has 1000 total, and is in line for a multi-135 freight company. Six months and he'll be interviewing at the regionals. He has no guaranteed interview...he doesn't need one.

Your estimate of 5 to 6 years to "make it" instructing and doing 135 freight is overstated, in my view. Two to three years locked into a program that pays CFI's $10/hr and guarantees you an interview doesn't seem like a great choice to me....but to each his own.

Let's compare apples to apples. What was the date of your first flight as a student pilot, what was the date you got your CFI, how many hours do you have today, and what is your hourly pay. I'll ask my part 61 trained friend the same things and post back ASAP.

 

[derg]

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Your estimate of 5 to 6 years to "make it" instructing and doing 135 freight is overstated, ]

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Waaaaay overstated.

Heck, I only spent 14 months instructing full time.

Besides, if a kid with 800 hours had attended networkJC last month, there were enough regional captains willing to help folks out there, he'd probably be starting IOE now.