Crosswind Landing

[tgrayson]

I was just basing the CRJ info off BobDDuck's post:

Well, you know the saying: a cat that once sat on a hot stove won't do it again, but won't sit on a cold one either. The CRJ's wing tips have certainly been dragged, but it does imply a certain amount of mishandling of the airplane.

 

[nosehair]

when the rudder is applied, the nose of the aircraft yaws to the side, yet the momentum of the aircraft makes it continue straight down the runway for a few seconds.

This is dependent on the weight of the aircraft and the strength of the cross-wind. The heavier the aircraft, the better it works.

But it doesn't work very well at all for an Aeronca, or a J-3, or a 152.

There is no "one-way" for all aircraft.

 

[granlistillo]

This is the part I still don't understand.

If the wings are level, how can the plane remain over and aligned with the runway centerline?

For the record, I said "near wing levels" not "wings level" as anymore than 5 degrees and you may catch a gust and drag a tip. At the point of touch down you are cross controlling upwing down, rudder to align. Also, some guys aim a tiny bit up wind of center line so if they drift a little bit, in the flare they will not be too far off. There is also the sink rate issue which is why I wouldnt want to be in a slip outside of ground effect.

 

[granlistillo]

HOWEVER, there are some airplanes with castering main gear that will permit a touchdown in a crab.

The mighty B52 comes to mind as a SALIENT example.

 

[DaveC]

I usually have students crab on final and set up a slip on short final. As they get better at quickly establishing the proper slip, we hold the crab longer and eventually to the point where the slip is initiated in the flare.

That's what I've found to work, but there are countless ways of doing it.

 

[Gumps]

I think some folks are confusing crossswind approach techinques with crosswind landing techinques. :banghead:

On final approach your choices are crab, side slip, and combined.

When it comes time to put the wheels to the pavement there is only one way to fly the aircraft, and that is in a side slip. The only exceptions are aircraft with castering main landing gear. The whole "kick out" method is bush league. Just 'cause your more comfortable with it doesn't make it good flying. One of these days you're gonna get bit in the arse and wonder what happened.

Don't believe me? Try getting a tail wheel endorsement with the "kick out". Heck, try using the "kick out" on a private pilot airplane check ride. Whammo! Pink slip.

 

[B767Driver]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "kick out"...but I would interpret it as establishing a sideslip in the flare.

If I'm wrong...correct me.

I don't see anything wrong with it...in fact...once you become more comfortable with crosswind landings I would say it is more commonly used by accomplished pilots.

If you don't have a lot of crosswind landing experience...I would recommend setting up a slip early on final to ensure that you have yourself properly stabilized and your nose aligned with the runway early.

However, once you are confident that you can do this in the flare...it is much more comfortable for your passengers because the prolonged sideslip on final can be a little uncomfortable to ride through.

 

[JEP]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "kick out"...but I would interpret it as establishing a sideslip in the flare.

If I'm wrong...correct me.

I don't see anything wrong with it...in fact...once you become more comfortable with crosswind landings I would say it is more commonly used by accomplished pilots.

If you don't have a lot of crosswind landing experience...I would recommend setting up a slip early on final to ensure that you have yourself properly stabilized and your nose aligned with the runway early.

However, once you are confident that you can do this in the flare...it is much more comfortable for your passengers because the prolonged sideslip on final can be a little uncomfortable to ride through.

I believe he is referring to crabbing all the way down and then 'kicking out' the crab right before touchdown. at least that has been my experience.

 

[B767Driver]

I believe he is referring to crabbing all the way down and then 'kicking out' the crab right before touchdown. at least that has been my experience.

I don't see anything wrong with this as long as you establish the upwind wing low in the process.

 

[SteveC]

I don't see anything wrong with this as long as you establish the upwind wing low in the process.

I read GUMPS use of the term "kicking out" as meaning using rudder to swing the nose without putting in aileron. I've seen guys do this.

 

[B767Driver]

I read GUMPS use of the term "kicking out" as meaning using rudder to swing the nose without putting in aileron. I've seen guys do this.

Gotchya. That could be disastrous.

 

[JEP]

I don't see anything wrong with this as long as you establish the upwind wing low in the process.

That's what I have tried to do...It's much easier for me than wing low, opposite rudder (to stay on centerline). and more comfortable for the pax indeed...at least the few that I have had.

 

[Douglas]

I think some folks are confusing crossswind approach techinques with crosswind landing techinques. :banghead:

I personally think that crabbing into the wind is more fun but I have never been given any formal training on approach to land in a crosswind (I know, it's pathetic) so I have always just done what "felt right". I have used both techniques mentioned above, and both seem to work perfectly fine, but what is the right way?

nah, I doubt a CFI would ever ask about how is the best way to land in a crab. In my mind the two are connected anyway.

 

[seagull]

A pictures is worth a thousand words and this is a textbook perfect example on how to land in a x-wind! I've used it in everything from a small C152 to large jets.

Should be, looks to me like the autopilot is landing it!

 

[seagull]

The CRJ does not contain any limitation in this regard and you can use the wing low method until you reach the crosswind limitations of the airplane (so I am told).

No, that was not the reason for the paranoia. The captain was afraid of a wingtip stall and having the airplane flip on its back, a concern which appears to be pretty common.

I understand that *some* airplanes do have bank angle limitations near the ground and you should know if you're flying one of those. But for other airplanes, many pilots appear to be using the wing low method just fine. I believe an MD11 Captain mentioned when this subject came up a while back that the autoland will transition to a sideslip something like 100 feet above the ground.

Exactly. The MD-11 manual wants you to transition into a side-slip at 200' when hand flying. The autopilot begins the transition a bit lower.

Also, having flown the DC-8-73 quite a bit, with a few landings in large crosswinds (Prestwick always seems to have them), I know the paranoia is about dragging a pod, (they are really close to the ground when you walk around the airplane), but the fact is that in normal landing attitude, the outboard flap is usually the closest the ground. While we did use a late transition in that airplane, as I recall, there was no limitation regarding transitioning to a side-slip further out if desired.

You CAN land a big jet the same way as a small airplane in a crosswind, and don't let anyone tell you different. As for landing in a crab, yes, the 747 had something about that, but the DC-8 had some strong statements about NOT doing that!