n9088d
New Member
Had to do it. It was mandatory.
Contract Negotiations / Agreement
- Thread starter GT_BMW
- Start date
Had to do it. It was mandatory.
Not hatin' on centers, just saying work hard.
ZNY just checked out their first trainee in 5 years a couple of months ago.
And for the record all of the controllers are old heads or transfers.
GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
I'd love to hear your source because that is nothing close to what I was told by the human resource manager there. His initials are TW.
Edit: you just had about 5 other people tell you that was not the case as well. Take the negativity elsewhere. If trainees couldn't check out then they wouldn't even bother taking them they would only bring in xfers. Guess what? ALL centers are lv 11-12, so where would they take the transfers from? In case you hadn't noticed, it is a completely different job with different training from Terminal/Approach.
Edit: you just had about 5 other people tell you that was not the case as well. Take the negativity elsewhere. If trainees couldn't check out then they wouldn't even bother taking them they would only bring in xfers. Guess what? ALL centers are lv 11-12, so where would they take the transfers from? In case you hadn't noticed, it is a completely different job with different training from Terminal/Approach.
n9088d
New Member
:yeahthat::clap:
Ok, I gotta ask. How freaking hard can ARTCC duty really be that there would be such a supposedly high washout rate? I don't buy it. It's enroute stuff. Not knocking a Center at all, just saying that in my experience of seeing it from my side of the house, RAPCON duty would be far more difficult (generally speaking) only due to the nature of working arrival/departure traffic than isn't yet in the enroute structure. That said, I'm sure that every facility type has its challenges and difficulties, just depends which one and where and at what time. There are times that being the PAR final controller at, say, RKTN when there's a mass recovery of aircraft and the WX is low; is FAR busier than a sector controller at ORD TRACON in the middle of the day. It just depends. But I still can't see the high washout rate at an ARTCC as being anywhere accurate; if it is accurate, then I'd wonder about either the training or the quality of the applicants.
GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
thanks for the back-up Mike. I don't know, maybe I take things too personally, but when people who can't cite their sources go spouting off unsubstantiated nonsense about 90% washout rates or "most" people washout, etc. it really bothers me and I feel obligated to defend myself.
When someone says "most" people wash out, I take it as "You" will wash out, and that is not cool in my book.
When someone says "most" people wash out, I take it as "You" will wash out, and that is not cool in my book.
queeno
Ward of the Guberment
nothing like talking out your ass, i worked in both ZAU and C90 and neithrer one was buser or more complex than the other, its diffrent types of control and if youve never worked them you wouldnt know.
as for you being busyer than C90, how long do your recoverys last ????????any one can be busy one hour a day try it 16 hours a day than tell me how busy you are.
as for the wash out rate its hard to tell the FFA has been lowering the standards for the last 3 years and really dumbed down the job.as for you nubees checking out during this 40% drop in traffic and think the job is easy, id like to be around to see you folk when it comes back and keeps growing add some bad weather, than well see how good you folks are.
Re: Arbitration Agreement
I believe it's EITHER 3% or the bottom of the new pay band for that year..whichever is more. You do not get both.
I believe it's EITHER 3% or the bottom of the new pay band for that year..whichever is more. You do not get both.
Yeah no freaking kidding it's different types of control. Thanks for reiterating my point for me.
Whether you have a length of recoveries over a longer period of time, or a mass of recoveries in a shorter period of time where diverts aren't an option, and the IFEs for fuel become a "take a number" (which I've been), again each has its challenges and the difficulties of those challenges vary by time and day; to poo-poo one over the other is ignorant. Have been there, done that and seen it from my side of the equation as the customer. From the sounds of it, you've never worked a backed-up PAR final with planes waiting to penetrate, it being the only approach available due to the WX making the non-precision ASLARs unusable, your own home station aircraft coming in as well as multiple other field diverts being sent your way of all types.......its a little more difficult than simply issuing a few headings then handing them off to tower, or otherwise clearing them for the visual or a pilot-nav approach. We can sit all day with the "what-if's", but if one wants to say one facility type is *always* more or less difficult than another, it'll just be a self-licking ice cream cone.
Not that I'm any sort of nubee in the aviation game or give a rats ass to be any sort of civil ATC, but thanks again for reiterating my point. As I stated before, if the washout rate is as high as its said to be, I'd look at either training or quality of applicants being accepted....one or the other. The job is in no way easy, but it's not impossible either, and a high washout rate would point in one of those two directions.
queeno
Ward of the Guberment
hay pal my first 4 years in atc were in the USAF, i know all about it, funny how the VRA wash out rate at C90 was just as high as the CTIs and OTSs.
sorry but wernt you the one that said enroute was easy???????????????
P.S. my first base RAF Bentwaters only had a PAR.
Ahhhh.....reread what I wrote. I said easier, generally speaking, not that it's easy as a job itself with no challenge. It has it's own challenges part and parcel from a terminal facility. And even within that, some ARTCCs will be far busier than a RAPCON, others not as much, and that even varies with time of day, time of year, WX, etc, etc. I was in no way demeaning one or the other, and even said so. I was simply working towards a point of the washout rate and why I thought it was happening, if it was. Again, if its so high, I don't believe the facility type is the issue; either the people hired-on don't meet the cut, or there's something going on with training, or both.
That was my only point. Your mileage may vary.
Bentwaters was nice, odd having a completely separate airport right next door ala Woodbridge.
ATC RET 2003
No More Vectors
...compared to retired, driving a new Challenger R/T and headed home soon...
they BOTH seem pretty good!
Your posts look strange without the city hall picture.
queeno
Ward of the Guberment
i though it was a time for a change so i put my baby on,looks like ill be staying till 2012 in illinois,#3 wants to finish up school.
OG
P.S. retirement RULES, glad i didnt waste this summer wating on that POS
ATC RET 2003
No More Vectors
Good onya... gives me more time to get up to Chicago and collect... don't think I could stand the cold in Western NY.
queeno
Ward of the Guberment
Good onya... gives me more time to get up to Chicago and collect... don't think I could stand the cold in Western NY.
your on any time :rawk:
ladiesolo
Well-Known Member
Beehive
Well-Known Member
Nice car quenno! Well deserved.
Contract Negotiations:
What's 1,000ft and 3mi minus 40% the first year, minus 20% the second year and 0% the third year? =the FFA (still) hate's me.
"Run'em tighter newbee, ya ::deadcat on the runway::"
"that last one was 3.3 sir"
"don't argue with me, you wasted 3/10mi".
"yes sir".
I like training with vet's who are eligible in a year!
Contract Negotiations:
What's 1,000ft and 3mi minus 40% the first year, minus 20% the second year and 0% the third year? =the FFA (still) hate's me.
"Run'em tighter newbee, ya ::deadcat on the runway::"
"that last one was 3.3 sir"
"don't argue with me, you wasted 3/10mi".
"yes sir".
I like training with vet's who are eligible in a year!