Commercial multi rating without private multi?

JrsyGuy

Well-Known Member
Is is possible to get your commercial multiengine rating as your initial multiengine rating? 61.129(b)(4) says you need "10 hours of solo flight time in a multiengine airplne or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor..."

'Performing the duties', to me, is a little vague. Does that mean you need a multi rating to perform the duties of PIC or could just being with an instructor satisfy the performing the duties as long as the instructor signs off as such?
 

JrsyGuy

Well-Known Member
If you were looking to get both commercial single and commercial multiengine ratings it would be cheaper to get the multi as an add-on but I am new to the instructing realm and my first student wants to get his commercial multi and all he has now are his private single and instrument ratings. So everyother requirement for the commercial multi without having any multiengine ratings can be met but i was just questioning the whole pilot in command in a multi aspect.
 

aloft

New Member
Do note that if he elects to do the multi as his initial commercial, all the required cross-country flights have to be done in a twin.
 

JrsyGuy

Well-Known Member
Do note that if he elects to do the multi as his initial commercial, all the required cross-country flights have to be done in a twin.
Thanks for the heads up. When filling in the students log books I would just write 61.129(b)(4)(ii) in the remarks to show that he was performing the duties of PIC?

This school just opened and I'm their only instructor so it's going to take a a bit to get myself on track.
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
Thanks for the heads up. When filling in the students log books I would just write 61.129(b)(4)(ii) in the remarks to show that he was performing the duties of PIC?

This school just opened and I'm their only instructor so it's going to take a a bit to get myself on track.
Pretty much... It is a BS reg.
 

aloft

New Member
Essentially.

I'm saying it's cheaper to get a multi add-on to an existing Comm ticket than doing CMEL as the initial Comm ticket, due to the cross country requirements. That's how I did it, the multi add-on to my Comm SEL being my first multi ticket. No reason to do a Pvt MEL add-on unless you want to do your timebuilding in the twin, but then it becomes an issue of insurance. Either way, the multi add-on ride is the easiest checkride you'll ever have.
 

BrewMaster

Well-Known Member
Essentially.

I'm saying it's cheaper to get a multi add-on to an existing Comm ticket than doing CMEL as the initial Comm ticket, due to the cross country requirements. That's how I did it, the multi add-on to my Comm SEL being my first multi ticket. No reason to do a Pvt MEL add-on unless you want to do your timebuilding in the twin, but then it becomes an issue of insurance. Either way, the multi add-on ride is the easiest checkride you'll ever have.
:yeahthat:

Getting a CMEL is going to be expensive, plus depending on how many hours you have and how quickly you pick it up, the transition may be a little too much too soon. You'll learn a lot from getting a CSEL and a multi add-on.

Not trying to tell you one way or another, just something to think about...
 

JrsyGuy

Well-Known Member
When you say it would be cheaper due to the cross country requirement you're talking about the fact that you don't have to do that cross country flight plan and diversion on your checkride? Otherwise aren't the VFR 2 hour, 100 mile day/night, and 300 mile x-country's still required to be done in a multi?
 

Douglas

Old School KSUX
When you say it would be cheaper due to the cross country requirement you're talking about the fact that you don't have to do that cross country flight plan and diversion on your checkride? Otherwise aren't the VFR 2 hour, 100 mile day/night, and 300 mile x-country's still required to be done in a multi?
dude, not even close
The multi-add on will take roughly 10 hours local practice area time.
That is it.

who told you you have to do a multi private?
I know a few cats that got scammed like that, by some schools. Dropping money for a Multi-PPL for no reason, then a Mulit-instrument add-on to PPL.
spooky stuff dude, read the regs
 

BrewMaster

Well-Known Member
Don't let the add-on get confused for getting your CMEL. The Commercial rating in a twin is going to cost you an arm and a leg, and it's not necessary. Do it in a cheaper single, learn more, then get the quick add-on.
 

aloft

New Member
Otherwise aren't the VFR 2 hour, 100 mile day/night, and 300 mile x-country's still required to be done in a multi?
Only if you're doing Comm ME as your initial Comm ticket. If you do your initial Comm in a single, then all that's necessary for an ME add-on is enough local training to reach proficiency for the checkride.
 

JrsyGuy

Well-Known Member
Only if you're doing Comm ME as your initial Comm ticket. If you do your initial Comm in a single, then all that's necessary for an ME add-on is enough local training to reach proficiency for the checkride.
I this based on 61.61(c)(4) that douglas just mentioned? Otherwise it was my understanding that the requirements would still remain for the rating sought which for comm multi the regs say you need those cross countries in a multi.
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
I this based on 61.61(c)(4) that douglas just mentioned? Otherwise it was my understanding that the requirements would still remain for the rating sought which for comm multi the regs say you need those cross countries in a multi.
61.63 allows you to add another class to your current certificate. So if you have a PSEL, you can do a PMEL addon, etc...

All the training that is required for this is in the PTS. There is no minimum amount of flight time.

So you get your Commercial Single based on 61.129(a). Then you get some multi-engine training, and get a multi addon on, based on the PTS and 61.63.
 

BrewMaster

Well-Known Member
61.63 allows you to add another class to your current certificate. So if you have a PSEL, you can do a PMEL addon, etc...

All the training that is required for this is in the PTS. There is no minimum amount of flight time.

So you get your Commercial Single based on 61.129(a). Then you get some multi-engine training, and get a multi addon on, based on the PTS and 61.63.
Just curious, is that a father son photo you are using for your avatar?


................:D
 
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