Comair's last undelivered -900 going to Mesaba

[Nick]

Yes.

Profits at a contractor equals wasted money on the part of the mainline carrier.

This is the basis for any likes they have of owning some of that contract flying.

 

[H46Bubba]

No offense, but it's about time.

Hey I'm all for it. But of course I work for a wholly owned, so Delta pays for the fuel either way!

 

[derg]

At least it's known now.

When I was flying domestic, on the jumpseat, I've had more than a number of regional pilots preach to me about how profitable and successful they were and blah blah blah.

Whenever I'd interject that any airline would be profitable with another entity paying for their gasoline, that you could fly straight pipe 727s with 40 passengers and still bust out with a spanky profit from TUS to PHX.

 

[kellwolf]

Might explain the "DON'T RUN THE APU AND FOR GOD'S SAKE SINGLE ENGINE TAXI!!!" memo we just got. Maybe we'll actually get some leverage in negotiations now.

"Oh, Delta's making you pay for fuel now? Well, tell ya what. We'll tell our guys to SE taxi if you'll sign right here. No, not that crappy contract you brought. Here's our copy."

 

[derg]

Perfect! Atta boy!

Like our "Burn a Trio for Leo!" back in the day.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

No offense, but it's about time.

I agree...

BUT, that only makes sense if current rates include the cost of fuel, or new rates are negotiated that include reasonable expectation as to what fuel might cost.

As long as a fair rate is worked out I agree. Less so lately, but when I first started and they were getting serious about this saving as thing a lot of the older guys I fly with had the "screw it...we don't pay for gas!" attitude.

 

[ifrcfi]

Keep in mind we work under the RLA. TSA guys could NOT have said "We resign in 17 days." The RLA calls that a "change in the status quo," which is required to be maintained in negotiations. So, if the TSA boys and girls had said that, there probably would have been jail time for the union leaders since it would have been an organized ordeal. You don't have 800+ spontaneously say "Take this job and shove it."

There's a lot of things that airline pilots' hands are simply tied on thanks to an outdated piece of legislation.

Yeah, I think I read the RLA more times then I really cared too one and a half years ago. So you are saying we can't resign from our jobs? Union leaders in jail that would be interesting (or funny) considering some of the federal pens are nicknamed country clubs, but that is a whole different topic. Yes I do agree with you though that many times our hands are tied. Maybe we just came up with another section of negotiating, section 25, the take this job and shove it section.

On another note do you guys really believe Jerry and Phil would sign some agreement that just allowed Delta or NW or whoever to arbitrarily add fuel costs? Maybe when the CPA is up it could be negotiated but I doubt there is anything in there where, bam now you start paying for fuel. Granted if someone could prove it was being wasted. Now some of the pro rate Express Jet did for DL and PCL/Colgan is doing now for CAL, maybe. Or if you are wholly owned maybe, but that might even be a stretch. Mainline is paying a w/o fuel bill anyway. Any contract carrier pilot who doesn't realize that the only way a profit was turned was because we don't directly pay for fuel is fooling themselves.

 

[SmoothLanderJ]

Might explain the "DON'T RUN THE APU AND FOR GOD'S SAKE SINGLE ENGINE TAXI!!!" memo we just got. Maybe we'll actually get some leverage in negotiations now.

"Oh, Delta's making you pay for fuel now? Well, tell ya what. We'll tell our guys to SE taxi if you'll sign right here. No, not that crappy contract you brought. Here's our copy."

Man tell me about it. Well either that or a lot of your planes APU's are inop. The last few times I flew on PNCL the APU wasnt working........i think...

 

[WalterSobchak]

Yeah I was in the industry and Mesaba still wasn't on my list of who to fly for. Sorry to twirk your horns.

After reading your thread how you were looking for a job w/250hrs in late 2005 early 2006 I fail to see how you were in the industry in '04 when XJ signed the contract we currently have. I guess in my world being in the industry means having a job flying, but I guess you were considering the training environment.

It doesn't really twirk my horns to get back to our contract. This is just a cycle that regionals go through. It sucks for some, but others prosper off of that. Thats the sucky part of being the sub contractors that we are.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Considering that Mesaba has done such a wonderful job for DAL...It makes since that they'd give it to them. WTF.

Considering NWA is virtually 1/2 of "Delta" we have done a nice job for them. What company do you work for that has done a wonderful job that 'deserves' them more?

 

[surreal1221]

I agree...

BUT, that only makes sense if current rates include the cost of fuel, or new rates are negotiated that include reasonable expectation as to what fuel might cost.

As long as a fair rate is worked out I agree. Less so lately, but when I first started and they were getting serious about this saving as thing a lot of the older guys I fly with had the "screw it...we don't pay for gas!" attitude.

:yeahthat:

It's unfortunate that the rates will be essentially set in concrete, and the DCI companies will end up losing out on this little deal.

Perhaps it'll make Delta realize that subcontract lift really isn't a worthwhile investment and will return some of those MD-88s and 737's to Domestic small lift use.

More jobs at a major, less at a regional ... is this the beginning of the transition away from small jets? One can only hope right?

Nevertheless, like I said, even the companies who are fuel humble (ASA has been on the managing fuel costs for our "mainline" partner since I have been here) are going to have some issues MAKING money, much less SAVING money now.

 

[sopdan]

The rates in the tables of LOA 23 already take the % increase into account, FWIW.

And nobody ever says anything about the fact that XJ's concessionary Saab rates are the highest of any Saab operator (including AE). I guess I'm dragging down the industry with my good work rules and above average T-prop pay.

 

[kellwolf]

On another note do you guys really believe Jerry and Phil would sign some agreement that just allowed Delta or NW or whoever to arbitrarily add fuel costs? Maybe when the CPA is up it could be negotiated but I doubt there is anything in there where, bam now you start paying for fuel.

Nope. I'm 99.8% sure it's spelled out in our ASA who pays for what, and fuel is in there. I believe that NWA pays for the required fuel for taxi, takeoff and alternate, but anything over that, WE pay for. Which is why the company is so anal about extra contingency fuel. Odds are, if Delta wants to make all the DCI carriers pay for gas, they're gonna have to pull another "we're canceling your -900 flying" fiasco to re-negotiate the ASA.

Man tell me about it. Well either that or a lot of your planes APU's are inop. The last few times I flew on PNCL the APU wasnt working........i think...

Wouldn't surprise me. APUs break a lot around here. Most of the time, they don't get fixed due to a) lack of parts or b) company is cheap (which I guess are kinda the same). When the APU hits the time limit that it needs to be checked, a lot of times they'll MEL it just to keep it flying. Flying in and out of MEM in the summer means the APU is running. Flying in and out of MSP and DTW in the winter means the APU is running b/c of the anti-ice limitation on bleed air. Damned if ya do and all that.